Masked helmets

[Anonymous]

Just a question: was there a padding inside the masks of the masked helmets? <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

I have never seen or read any references to padding- howver you might be interested in detailed analysis of the Kalkriese mask at www.legiiavg.org.uk/artic...lacht.html<br>
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Cheers<br>
<br>
Paulus <p></p><i></i>

[Crispvs]

Brian Stobbs' article presents a good attempt at finding a sequence to make sense of the various holes in the mask. I feel I must raise a couple of points however.<br>
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1) He says that the original holes would have held pins securing leather hinges. Can he offer any evidence as to why these hinges should be made of leather rather than the more usual orichalcum brass?<br>
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2) I cannot find any credence in his suggested use in the second phase. Attatching loops to hook around the ears is all very well if the mask is made of fibreglass (and even better if of paper or card). I think however, that if Brian ever tried to wear an iron mask in this way his ears would get rather sore. That is, they would do if the weight of the mask did not drag it further down his face and obscure his vision, before coming off altogether!<br>
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Just a couple of thoughts.<br>
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Crispvs <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

That ear thing is a bit weird.. You'll definitely need strong ears...<br>
If it was directly attached to the head, what about simply behind the skull?<br>
But since it was not attached to the head, but to a helmet of some kind..<br>
And we still don't know whether there was a padding. Besides, we still dont know to what type of helmet this particular type of mask --simple triangular as opposed to the "full" face masks-- belonged to..<br>
There is a mask very similar to the Kalkriese specimen on the Guttmann collection BTW. It has holes in the temples and a metal hinge on the top of the brow. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=antoninuslucretius@romanarmytalk>Antoninus Lucretius</A> <IMG HEIGHT=10 WIDTH=10 SRC="http://lucretius.homestead.com/files/Cesar_triste.jpg" BORDER=0> at: 4/7/04 12:06 pm<br></i>

[Anonymous]

I agree that the most likely is a strip or plaited leather lead behind the head to stop the helmet bouncing around on its top hinge and hittingthe face.<br>
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As regards other surviving Kalkriese helmets, there is a complete one in the (private) Levy collection (quite a good replica by Deepeeka on their site) and I've also seen a photo of one in many, many pieces in the Junkellmann book.<br>
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Cheers<br>
<br>
Paulus <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

I wish I could visit the Deepeeka site...<br>
But they keep asking me for information that they absolutely don't need, like my phone numer, my email and RL adresses and so on.<br>
So I can "log in"<br>
When I get into commercial site where I may buy things with my money I don't expect to be frisked and asked for an ID.<br>
But then maybe I'm old fashioned..<br>
So, Paulus I visited a few other sites featuring Deepeeka products and I didn't see that helmet. Unless you are thinking about the Ribchester masked helmet, which is precisely the full-face masked helmets as opposed to the Kalkriese type..<br>
Would you know a site where I could see that helmet and that I could actually access without making a full confession?.. <p></p><i></i>

[Vincula]

Quote:</em></strong><hr>I wish I could visit the Deepeeka site...<hr><br>
If you enter an email apassword and a country (not USA, or you will need a state) it will let you right in. Doesn't even need to be your real emal! <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

Ok, I've seen the helmet in question. Lonely Mountain Forge did a similar one, if I recall.<br>
I'd like to see the orginal. <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

<I'd like to see the orginal. > So would I! But unless you have better connections than I do in New York with the private Levy collection.....btw, from various articles on the web that Paul Levy died and was also linked to the Metropolitan Museum in NY- does anyone know if there is any chance of his collection entering public display there?<br>
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Cheers,<br>
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Paulus <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

<img src="http://www.legionsix.org/maskinside.jpg" style="border:0;"/><br>
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Going back to the original question, the above picture of the inside of a mask seems to answer it- probably not. Great pics on this website of the Guttmann gear- many thanks! <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

There doesn't seem to be any remnants of a lining inside this mask, but well.. It's a very old mask, that spent quite some time underground.. Then some more in the hands of people who may not have been specialists..<br>
Problem is that due to its shape this mask is worn quite close to the face and if its only held in place by the hinge on top, a blow, even a mild one, will push it into the face of its owner..<br>
So it had to be held firmly in place and attached to the helmet and I don't see how this could be done. Besides tne hinge this mask has to be seated on something rigid.<br>
I've seen some reenactors with masked helmets on TV and in here. Could one of them please step forward and tell us, in his own words, how it feels to wear a masked helmet? <p></p><i></i>

[Vincula]

Quote:</em></strong><hr>Problem is that due to its shape this mask is worn quite close to the face and if its only held in place by the hinge on top, a blow, even a mild one, will push it into the face of its owner..<hr><br>
Two things strike me. First, the mask has to be worn close so that the wearer can see thru the eye holes. Second, how often do you take a blow to the face anyway? (You'd deflect with shield or by ducking away.) <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

And another thing- the movement of a horse would make the mask quite uncomfortable if only restrained by the upper hinge and cheekplates. Unless either fitted with some other restraint (see above), or some kind of padded face mask worn saperately? The problem must have been sorted as the face mask was worn (IIRC) by Kalmyks, Rus, and Palmyrenes. A great photo of a mask in action is here www.fectio.org.uk/shows/k...se2003.htm<br>
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Does anyone know him to ask?<br>
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Cheers,<br>
<br>
Paulus <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

A while ago Antoninus asked "Just a question: was there a padding inside the masks of the masked helmets?"<br>
I have just found the 1911 report on Newstead by James Curle attp://www.curlesnewstead.org.uk/pdfs/c ... pter09.pdf <br>
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In it, describing a "helmet with visor-mask" on page 170, he says "there were remains of thick padding in the inside of the head-piece. The padding appreared to have been composed of wool, and to have been fastened to the helmet by some resinous substance, which became sticky when hot water was applied. Traces of similar padding were found adhering to the mask" with a footnote " On the back of a mask found at Hellingen, near Luxemburg, traces were recognised of a resinous substance probably applied for the same purpose.Nordiske Fortisminder, ii p.42."<br>
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You were right!<br>
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Btw, at the end of the chapter, he lists several helmets and their location in 1911- some of these sadly seem to have gone missing.....<br>
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Regards,<br>
<br>
Paulus <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

Vincula asks: "How often would you take a blow to the face."<br>
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Interesting point... but if the answer is really is "rarely" what's the point of the mask anyway? It seems like an awfully awkward and uncomfortable piece of gear to be wearing if it serves no purpose... unless they really were used primarily for sports.<br>
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Aaron <p></p><i></i>