City States

[Apollodoros]

What were the "Main" Greek city states in classical and late classical era.
What Shield Emblems did they use during this time period? I have found the clasical greek shield patterns site off google but still a bit confused i see 10 shields from Athens in some parts, are they for different units?
Did hairstyle and Dress differ much from different city states?

[Jona Lendering]

What were the "Main" Greek city states in classical and late classical era.

Sparta, Athens, Thebes, Argos, Corinth. Outside the borders of modern Greece: Cyrene, Syracuse (larger than Athens), and Miletus, which gradually was replaced as most important Greek city in Asia Minor by Ephesus.

[hoplite14gr]

Considering that most sources that survived come from mainland Greece - these states are more well known. But Massalia in west was a very importan city ans mosy Italiotic colonies are overlooked.

As for shield patterns:

http://romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic.php?t=6019

Kind regards

[Na Saighdiuir]

What Shield Emblems did they use during this time period? I have found the clasical greek shield patterns site off google but still a bit confused i see 10 shields from Athens in some parts, are they for different units?
Did hairstyle and Dress differ much from different city states?

To the best of my limited knowledge,there was no set in stone code for emblems.It was more a case of personal choice i believe.Many different devices were in use,amoung them were bulls,gorgon heads(i think) and lions(though there is also the famous case of the spartan with the fly on his aspis).The first uniform emblem was introduced by the spartans in the 420's BC,the famed lambda or inverted v.
As for hairstyle,in sparta a long hairstyle was a symbol of a warriors/full citizens status.I think the women had theirs cut short or something.

Hope ive vaguely answered some of your queries.Maybe someone can expand a bit further and correct any errors i've made.

[Apollodoros]

Thank you Jona , Hoplite , and Na.
If the shield emblem is more personal choice that cool ill just pick one i like, as for the citys ill see what i can dig up on them. Sparta and Athens are fairly easy to look into so ill look up some of the others.

[hoplite14gr]

People have the sence of belonging in a group and facing peer pressure.
I our case lets take an example the Beotian Spartoi Clan.
Their shield device is described by Pausanias on the statue of Epameinondas in Arkadia. Attic archaic pottery gives us color indication.
White snake on a black background or red snake on a white background.
the clan was powerful and distinguised in Beotia and it members carried the clan emblem instead of the city emblem.

We cannot rule out black snake on bronze or red or other colour.
That was the hoplite's personal choice in this case.

Remember identification friend from foe was important or you risked getting killed by your side. That was critical factor in the adoption of a state emblem.

Note1:
anecdote of Spartan shield with fly on it -Plutarch does not tell us what other was painted on it. We know from Antikensammelung collection and Louvre that quite a lot was painted as personal emblem alongside the "official" emblem.

Note 2:
Delion incident. The white cresent of the the Thespians on a black background was not exactly the same as the sun and cresent of the Vravrona demos but in a battlefield where where dust and boold cover the shields blunder combat can be explained.

Kind regards

[Apollodoros]

I found this while looking for more information and thought i'd share in case anyone else is interested. :lol:

http://www.300spartanwarriors.com/hopli ... blems.html

[Paullus Scipio]

Stefanos wrote:

I our case lets take an example the Beotian Spartoi Clan.
Their shield device is described by Pausanias on the statue of Epameinondas in Arkadia.

This not quite correct. Pausanias describes a pillar (XI.5-8 ) on his grave, bearing a shield with a dragon in relief, and stating the dragon meant that Epaminondas belonged 'to the race of those called the Spartoi' ( not Clan, notice.)

In Greek mythology, all Thebans came from the Dragon's teeth, sown by Cadmus in the soil, and from which sprang fully armed men. (the 'spartoi' or sown men, from whom the whole Theban race claimed descent) What evidence is there that any particular clan claimed this name as their own? The Dragon and /or' Spartoi'/ sown men merely indicates 'Theban'.

the clan was powerful and distinguised in Beotia and it members carried the clan emblem instead of the city emblem.

.....what is your evidence for this? Why do you think there was a 'clan' of this name in Thebes, when it was a generic epithet for all Thebans?

In fact at that particular battle (Second Mantinea), we are told that the Thebans and all their Allies ( and presumably including Epaminondas) had a Club device painted on their shields.(Xen 'History of my Times' VIII.5.19) for the very reason, identification, that you pointed out....
Since 'snake' shields are not particularly associated with Thebes, and since we are specifically told that ALL the Thebans and their Allies bore 'Club devices', and since the dragon grave device merely indicates Theban, it is unlikely in the extreme that Epaminondas or his family ( whatever they were) ever used such a snake device.......

BTW, Pausanias' word is 'drakonta', and according to the various Greek lexicons this means 'dragon' only, though 'drakon' can mean a dragon or giant serpent.

Attic archaic pottery gives us color indication.
White snake on a black background or red snake on a white background.

...the vases in question usually depict 'The Seven Against Thebes', hence the serpent on white shield is generally thought of as an Argive emblem......another example shows Herakles and the Argonauts, one of whom has a White shield with a serpent emblem, hence he is sometimes thought to be the Argive Idmon, but this is not certain.......