The color purple and the roman laws...

[Nihonius Legio]

Ok, the animal is a murex mollusk. I had watched on the History Channel I think it was, where they said the animal that made purple dye was extinct. But maybe that was an animal that made something else. I dont know, but it seems the murex mollusk is still alive and ticking.
According to the article I just read on it, it took about 10,000 of these things to make one purple toga.

[Ironhand]

It doesn't look like the dye has gotten any cheaper though one article claimed that 12,000-20,000 shellfish had to be used to obtain 1.5 grams of dye so perhaps that accounts for it. Not quite 20 times the value of gold, but still not far from it.

I haven't seen anything that supported the murex's extinction. The reason for the dye disappearing wasn't due to lack of materials but the fad had passed and Cardinals purple replaced it.

[Martin Moser]

Hi,

sorry, but I beg to differ ... :-) )

Purple dye was made by a mullosc or some other kind of shell fish that is believed to be extinct today.

I doubt that, see my link above in this thread (and the 2nd, German one, lots of info on it there!) ...

Even in Roman times it was very rare and expensive.

Rare? I'd say no. Expensive, yes, but not rare.

Because of this, it's unlikely a barbarian would come by purple cloth unless he killed someone of very high rank in society. That would mean his punishment would be death.

Babarian does not necessarily mean having no money. There certainly were very, very rich people that would still be considered babarian by the Romans.

Even if someone made purple in some other way (supposedly there wasnt an other way)

Again, see my other posting above. The *color* purple was produced in more than one way obviously. There was just one "real" purple, however.

they would still be showing themselves to be a higher rank than others. It'd be like impersonating an officer today, but with harsh Roman justice.

Was that so for everybody? I'd be interested to see references for that. I read about sanctions for one or two court nobles in the 3rd or 4th century, but otherwise ... maybe somebody else knows more?

[Nihonius Legio]

I just post what I remember hearing in different places. It's been so long since I heard this stuff, I couldnt tell you a sure source. Also, I posted on the murex that it isnt extinct. So I said it must have been something else I had heard about, though I could swear it was the animal that made purple. I watched something on the History Channel I think that talked about a shell fish that had never been found, but was referenced alot in ancient writings. I'm sorry if I goof on some info, I just tell what I hear. Alot of history is just speculation anyways.

Where do you all get your information? I'd be intersted in some good sources.

[Martin Moser]

Hi Jared,

thanks for your answer :-) )

Where do you all get your information? I'd be intersted in some good sources.

Books. ;-) )

For colors or dyes rather you might look at

Textilsammlung der Abegg-Stiftung Band 4
Textilien des Mittelmeerraumes aus spätantiker bis frühislamischer Zeit
Sabine Schrenk
Gewebeanalysen: Regina Knaller
2004
ISBN 3-905014-24-6

or

Fragile Remnants: Egyptian Textiles of Late Antiquity and Early Islam
Hatje Cantz Publishers
ISBN: 9783775716994 ISBN10: 3775716998
PUBLICATION DATE: 03/01/2006

and such.

Once you have any of the newer ones you can also follow the bibliography in there.

[Nihonius Legio]

Wow, you do alot of reading. Sorry though, I dont know German. The Egyptian one maybe. Got a few history degrees I bet? It's probably something I'll go for too.

[Ironhand]

Hey, I found a cheaper site with Tyrian purple for 30 Euros per gram.
http://www.alibaba.com/product-free/102 ... gment.html