01-11-2009, 02:51 PM
I'm going to propose a radical theory behind Cunedag's move to north Wales:
As Stuart Laycock mentions, dragon type brooches have been found in both western Brigantia/Rheged and Goutodin territories. This could be for a number of reason, but if we cut it down to two: he fought against them or they were allies, this could give us an interesting scenario. It is said that Cunedag fought at Caer Weir (Durham? Although this may be Caer Wein/Vinovia/Binchester) and Caer Lywelydd (Carlisle), both in Brigantian territory, although Durham could have then been in British Bernician hands by then. If he did marry Coel's daughter then there would be an alliance there. (Though this 'marriage' could be to Gwawl, mening the Wall, so a territorial marriage). As I said earlier, I'm not sure who he would have been fighting in those to places, but they could be Britons or Scotti on east and west respectfully if he's on the Brigantians side, or against Brigantia if he's not?
Brigantia was big and the eastern side could even have been the area of the illusive Velentia (that became Rheged) and, as argued by Laycock, the cause of earlier internal troubles. If it was actually not devoid of military strength and Cunedag, whilst originally from Manau Goutidin but now aligned to them, was with them they would have been a force to be reckoned with and a force possibly experienced/successful at dealing with Scotti raiders. They would also have virtually bordered North Wales. So it could be Velentia/Brigantia/Rheged that were asked to assist and Cunedag was the man for the job. It could also be that they weren't asked at all but had an expansion policy and no one was powerful enough to stop them. Only later was it claimed as a invitation.
Did he take the Ceneus Samatarum of Bremetennacum/Ribchester, or rather the Veteranorum, with him? These were the descendents of the original Sarmatians who settled in the area. I wouldn't make them central to this theory, and just add them as a possibility. I don't want to go down the From Scythia to Camelot route!
If the dragon was the Brigantian symbol - I will refrain from the Sarmatian dragon - is this why it became that of Guenedota and later Wales? It has to be noted that there have been no dragon type brooches for in north Wales, or anywhere in Wales for that matter, but, as they say, absence of evidence does not mean evidence of absence. Was Cunedag the original or inspiration for Utyr pen dragon, the terrible head dragon/warrior?
Probably mad, I know, but there it is to rip apart.
As Stuart Laycock mentions, dragon type brooches have been found in both western Brigantia/Rheged and Goutodin territories. This could be for a number of reason, but if we cut it down to two: he fought against them or they were allies, this could give us an interesting scenario. It is said that Cunedag fought at Caer Weir (Durham? Although this may be Caer Wein/Vinovia/Binchester) and Caer Lywelydd (Carlisle), both in Brigantian territory, although Durham could have then been in British Bernician hands by then. If he did marry Coel's daughter then there would be an alliance there. (Though this 'marriage' could be to Gwawl, mening the Wall, so a territorial marriage). As I said earlier, I'm not sure who he would have been fighting in those to places, but they could be Britons or Scotti on east and west respectfully if he's on the Brigantians side, or against Brigantia if he's not?
Brigantia was big and the eastern side could even have been the area of the illusive Velentia (that became Rheged) and, as argued by Laycock, the cause of earlier internal troubles. If it was actually not devoid of military strength and Cunedag, whilst originally from Manau Goutidin but now aligned to them, was with them they would have been a force to be reckoned with and a force possibly experienced/successful at dealing with Scotti raiders. They would also have virtually bordered North Wales. So it could be Velentia/Brigantia/Rheged that were asked to assist and Cunedag was the man for the job. It could also be that they weren't asked at all but had an expansion policy and no one was powerful enough to stop them. Only later was it claimed as a invitation.
Did he take the Ceneus Samatarum of Bremetennacum/Ribchester, or rather the Veteranorum, with him? These were the descendents of the original Sarmatians who settled in the area. I wouldn't make them central to this theory, and just add them as a possibility. I don't want to go down the From Scythia to Camelot route!
If the dragon was the Brigantian symbol - I will refrain from the Sarmatian dragon - is this why it became that of Guenedota and later Wales? It has to be noted that there have been no dragon type brooches for in north Wales, or anywhere in Wales for that matter, but, as they say, absence of evidence does not mean evidence of absence. Was Cunedag the original or inspiration for Utyr pen dragon, the terrible head dragon/warrior?
Probably mad, I know, but there it is to rip apart.
Arturus Uriconium
a.k.a Mak Wilson
May the horse be with you!
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a.k.a Mak Wilson
May the horse be with you!
[url:17bayn0a]http://www.makltd.biz[/url]
