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The Votadini exodus to Wales
#21
Oh, I almost forgot. Superbus tyrannus is not a title, it's a pun on a man's name. We're not sure if Gildas actually meant Vortigern, but superbus tyrannus (proud usurper) is a very apt pun for a man who probably took the name Vortigern (great ruler) upon accession.

Quote:I was saying Pagneses to include Cornovian territory, but maybe that was Liutcoyt by then. Do you really think there was no military structure in that region?
We're not sure what the actual borders of the Cornovian civitas were, nor how large Powys was at times. But they are mostly regarded as the very same territory.
Yes, I'm pretty sure. Although Stuart Laycock lately has argued for some form of tribal identity remaining present throughout Roman occupation, followed by re-arming 'the tribes' in the 4th c., I can see no evidence for that under Roman rule. It would have been unique if in accordance with Roman government, and impossible without it - it would have meant rebellion and secession, something we're sure of did not take place prior to 410 (or whatever date you choose as 'final').

I agree with Laycock about developments during the 5th c., but the inner provinces had no armed tribal (or civitas militia) structure during the 4th c. Remains of posssible military artefacts can be argued as remains belonging to members of the mobile field army, while produced locally.
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
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Messages In This Thread
The Votadini exodus to Wales - by romanonick - 09-15-2008, 11:28 PM
Re: The Votadini exodus to Wales - by Alanus - 09-16-2008, 04:50 AM
Re: The Votadini exodus to Wales - by Caturiga - 09-16-2008, 02:54 PM
Re: The Votadini exodus to Wales - by Alanus - 09-22-2008, 04:40 AM
Re: The Votadini exodus to Wales - by Alanus - 09-23-2008, 03:50 AM
Re: The Votadini exodus to Wales - by Alanus - 09-26-2008, 05:58 AM
Re: The Votadini exodus to Wales - by Robert Vermaat - 01-08-2009, 10:51 PM
Re: The Votadini exodus to Wales - by Alanus - 03-28-2009, 07:15 PM
Re: The Votadini exodus to Wales - by fasta - 03-29-2009, 12:11 AM
Re: The Votadini exodus to Wales - by fasta - 03-29-2009, 12:27 PM
Re: The Votadini exodus to Wales - by fasta - 03-29-2009, 02:37 PM
Re: The Votadini exodus to Wales - by fasta - 03-29-2009, 05:05 PM
Re: The Votadini exodus to Wales - by fasta - 03-29-2009, 05:46 PM
Re: The Votadini exodus to Wales - by Agraes - 03-29-2009, 08:56 PM
Re: The Votadini exodus to Wales - by fasta - 03-30-2009, 12:54 PM
Re: The Votadini exodus to Wales - by Alanus - 03-31-2009, 01:08 PM
Re: The Votadini exodus to Wales - by dux bellum - 04-21-2009, 09:28 PM
Re: The Votadini exodus to Wales - by Alanus - 07-13-2009, 03:16 AM
Re: The Votadini exodus to Wales - by Alanus - 07-19-2009, 04:37 AM
Re: The Votadini exodus to Wales - by Ron Andrea - 08-13-2009, 06:21 PM
Re: The Votadini exodus to Wales - by Ron Andrea - 08-13-2009, 07:31 PM
Re: The Votadini exodus to Wales - by Ron Andrea - 08-13-2009, 08:07 PM
Re: The Votadini exodus to Wales - by Caturiga - 08-14-2009, 08:55 AM
Re: The Votadini exodus to Wales - by Alanus - 08-15-2009, 03:29 AM
Re: The Votadini exodus to Wales - by Caturiga - 08-15-2009, 09:33 PM
Re: The Votadini exodus to Wales - by Alanus - 08-16-2009, 08:00 AM
Re: The Votadini exodus to Wales - by romanonick - 08-19-2009, 12:56 AM

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