LEG III ITAL ANT marching...

[Shawn]

Right now the LEG III ITAL ANT is on the march from Carnuntum/Austria back to Regensburg/Germany.

For more information about the march and the goals those brave legionaries aim to accomplish log on to:

www.donau-limes.de
- Projekte - Donaulimes Marsch

If you happen to be near these villages, feel free to come and visit their camp.

Marschtag von bis
05.08.08 Carnuntum/ Altenburg Maria Ellend
06. 08.08 Maria Ellend Schwechat
07. 08.08 Schwechat Klosterneuburg
08. 08.08 Klosterneuburg Tulln
09. 08.08 1. Ruhetag
10. 08.08 Tulln Zwentendorf
11. 08.08 Zwentendorf Traismauer
12. 08.08 Traismauer St. Pölten
13. 08.08 St. Pölten Melk
14. 08.08 2. Ruhetag
15. 08.08 Melk Ybbs a.d.D.
16. 08.08 Ybbs a.d.D. St. Georgen am Ybbsfelde
17. 08.08 St. Georgen am Ybbsfelde Amstetten
18. 08.08 Amstetten Strengberg
19. 08.08 Strengberg Enns
20. 08.08 3. Ruhetag
21. 08.08 Enns Kaserne Ebelsberg
22. 08.08 Kaserne Ebelsberg Eferding
23. 08.08 Eferding Engelhartszell
24. 08.08 Engelhartszell Obernzell
25. 08.08 Obernzell Passau
26. 08.08 4. Ruhetag
27. 08.08 Passau Vilshofen
28. 08.08 Vilshofen Künzing
29. 08.08 5. Ruhetag
30. 08.08 Künzing Moos
31. 08.08 Moos Strasskirchen
01.09.08 Strasskirchen Straubing
02.09.08 Straubing Pfatter
03.09.08 Pfatter Neutraubling
04.09.08 Neutraubling Regensburg

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Good luck lads!
Hopefully one day you will have an English version of your website for those of us Germanically challenged! 8)

[caiusbeerquitius]

Shawn, it is a forum rule that you put your real name into your signature. You will find a link to the forum rules in my signature below.

[Shawn]

sorry, already changed my details. And we a re currently working on an english version of our homepage

also i have uploaded a few photos taken just a week ago
www.pbase.com/udo_willi/donaulimes

[Dan Diffendale]

Looking good!

[Shawn]

Hello again,

Spiegel online has published an article about our marching legionaries. The article is in german, but hte pictures may be of interest:

www.spiegel.de/unispiegel/wunderbar/0,1518,574545,00.html

[Helvetica]

Hello all
I am not a member of a troop, just a lady numismatist who likes to visit Roman re-enactments when I have time and when I can find one which would interest me.

Here is an English translation of the "Spiegel" article mentioned by Shawn. Sorry about any typing errors, it's 4 a.m....


MARCH, MARCH, LEGIONAIRES
They're mad, the hobby Romans
(this is a play on words of the German saying "They're mad, the Romans" which can apply to any people of any nationality who do something silly)

By Christoph Titz

Passers-by think they're crazy: Ten students from Regensburg are marching 500 kilometers along the Danube, in full Roman uniform. A tunic, chain-mail top, sword and helmet weighs 35 kilograms (74 lbs). The tough legionaires smell strong and are thick with dirt - all in the name of academic research.

Even though he is the centurion, teacher Josef Löffl, 28, is marching just like his students are. In contrast to his historical predecessors in Roman imperial times, Centurion Löffel is not riding on horseback beside his legionnires. The hobby Roman is travelling on foot, vulgo: per pedes. And has been for three full weeks.

ROMAN PAINS: 500 KILOMETER MARCH ON NAILS

(Start photo series: click on a picture (14 pictures)

"You really do sweat a lot", says historian Löffl. That's to be expected when he and his nine fellow travellers are carrying 35 kg heavy Roman outfits, as close as possible to the originals, on their backs. From the inside to the outside: woollen under-tunic, long cotton tops alias subarmalis, chain-mail shirts or breast-plates. A woollen cloak is there to protect against "uncomfortable inflammation" should the metal rub against the neck.

On their feet they are wearing Ramshaw boots, flat leather shoes with nails beneath the soles, named after the archaeological site where they were discovered, Ramshaw, after 2000 years in the ground. On the outside, the Romans are carrying bags, leather pouches, water bags, parazonium and their helmets. And their backs are carrying a shield - a further six to eight kg heavy - and everything has been made as close to the original as possible. So it's pretty normal to smell a bit strong wearing such thick, heavy clothing. "That's what experimental archaeology is all about", says Löffl.

Theory put to the day to day test

In real life, he isn't a centurion at all, this "Magister Löffl" (Professor Löffl) as his students and colleagues respectfully call him. Hi is currently marching the 500 kilometer along the Danube-Limes, the former Roman wall in today's Austria, with his legionaires.

Four years ago, Löffl, still a student at that time, took his colleagues on a Roman tour over the Alps. The aim was, as today, to test the day-to-day functionability of the Romans' equipment and to find out whether the system of marching truly allowed the distances to be covered which are mentioned in books. In 2004 some critisism was aimed at Löffls March by academic colleagues - they complained that the Regensburger students were wasting time and taxpayers' money and their equipment wasn't so close to the original as they were claiming.

Susanne Wilbers-Rost, an experienced archaeologist from the Museumspark Varusschlacht in Kalkriese, comes to the defence of the young Danube marchers. "Experimental archaeolog is very valuable for science", she says. It is very useful "to test pure theory from books, in order to find out whether the theory is just a lot of rubbish". Of course there are groups of people who are not seriously interested in science, says Wilbers-Rost. "It can be just a joke - but it can just as well be scientific work."

Whoever is planning a historically correct march cannot do without consulting military historian Marcus Junkelmann. The war researcher with a weakness for ancient Rome was the German pioneer for scientific reenactments, the re-enactment of historical events, when he marched from Verona over the Alps to Augsburg with a small group of legionaires in 1985. On that subject he published the book "Die Legionen des Augustus". (The Legions of August)

Flat bread and stew for the Legion's Fitness

Junkelmann's joy at experimenting set an example for Josef Löffl. In contrast to most gladiator showmen and unserious hobby Romans, he wants to do things close to reality. "Most Reenactment groups are only able to stand around a field like decorations", Löffl said about such people as a tourist attraction. "We are not a travelling circus and we're not a petting zoo", he stresses. Which means: We are more genuine than the others.

For that reason the young Regensburger students are also trying to feed themselves in the same way as their warlike predecessors from about 250 A.D. They chew on the Roman military bread, panis militaris, about which Junkelmann has written an entire book. Apart from this rough corn, hard baked, flat bread, there is stew made of cereals, Löffl explains. One difference to the old days: the food is not foraged - in earlier times that meant that the soldiers helped themselves to foodstuffs from grain stores and stables in the places they camped.

Instead of the legalised robbery of old, the communities along the route are making the small troop free gifts of vegetables, water and firewood. In most cases, the village mayor comes to the camp with a photographer from the local newspaper and makes a show of handing over the donation. Lenses, peas and beans give a person amazing strength, centurion Löffl tells us: "One full bowl of field crockery per man per day was enough. The level of fitness rises enormously."

Huns, Robber barons - or just madmen?

Also necessary: The marching day of a Roman legionaire is tough. One sleeps in the malodorous tunic, which is damp from sweat, and around themselves the Regensburger students and Magister Löffl wrap their military cloak - the cloak of history, so to speak. This combination keeps them as warm as though they were in a sleeping bag. Wake-up call is at 03.45 hrs, then they dismantle the camp and put their uniforms back on.

"The metallic parts are already oxidised black from sweat", Löffl tells us. Beesway and grease protect the leather straps and weapons but they also make the skin and clothes dirty. Löffls men march 15 to 25 Kilometers per day. They prefer field paths or crossing fields any other way, because tarmac is very slippery with the leather boots. Löffl once badly turned his knee during a test march.

And because tarmac roads with their iron manhole covers wear away the nails under the soles very quickly, a shoemakers kit with nails, last and hammer is always present.

When the troop meet normal Europeans, there is a big "Hello!". Most of them recognise them immediately as Roman legionaires, Löffl says. But because of the dirt and smell, other people think they are supposed to be Huns or robber barons. "And then there are others", says Löffl and laughs, "who just think we're mad."

[Shawn]

well done, thanks for translating :-) )

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Yes, it is great to read the trans lation! Thankyou!

Not so sure if this will go down so well though!

"Most Reenactment groups are only able to stand around a field like decorations", Löffl said about such people as a tourist attraction. "We are not a travelling circus and we're not a petting zoo", he stresses. Which means: We are more genuine than the others.

Not everyone receives Gov' support for their efforts, I would like to stress in defense...Who has the time off work for this I would like to know. :? (

Nice to see you guys doing this but I reackon we are as genuine as any.... :wink:


Great to see this is being done though, aside from that jab at us 'ornaments' :wink: :lol:

[Helvetica]

I agree and I was careful to translate the comment(s) correctly.
There is a lot of jealousy in many academic circles on "ancient" subjects (and others). I find Löffl's comment - if he did indeed make them - very arrogant and disparaging to re-enactment groups who have a lot of fun themselves and who give pleasure to onlookers such as myself, but, knowing personally how journalists make thing up and colour things themselves (one French newspaper wrote back in the late 70's that I was supposed to be making a film with Steve McQueen (I wish! :roll: ), so maybe Löffl didn't actually say it.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

That thought had crossed my mind as well!

Lets hope he didn't say this...!

[Robert Vermaat]

Laudes to the group involved, I think this march is a great project!!

Not so sure if this will go down so well though!

"Most Reenactment groups are only able to stand around a field like decorations", Löffl said about such people as a tourist attraction. "We are not a travelling circus and we're not a petting zoo", he stresses. Which means: We are more genuine than the others.

I agree and I was careful to translate the comment(s) correctly.
There is a lot of jealousy in many academic circles on "ancient" subjects (and others). I find Löffl's comment - if he did indeed make them - very arrogant and disparaging to re-enactment groups who have a lot of fun themselves and who give pleasure to onlookers such as myself, but, knowing personally how journalists make thing up and colour things themselves (one French newspaper wrote back in the late 70's that I was supposed to be making a film with Steve McQueen (I wish! :roll: ), so maybe Löffl didn't actually say it.

It seems like the second part of the statement was added by the journalist? Maybe he put words in Löffl's mouth. Löffl might only have wanted to stress that this group was not putting up a show for the public, whether educational or for show, but engaging in a scientific experiment.

The words 'some groups are only able' do however carry a bit of judgement, which have been expressed by others on this forum as well. Not a topic I would want to go deeper into.

[Helvetica]

"Die meisten Reenactment-Gruppen können nur dekorativ auf der Wiese herumstehen.."
word for word:
The most re-enactment groups can only decoratively on the field stand around.

(the active verb is German is always at the end of the sentence in sentences using can, should, could, etc.)

Nevertheless, they do deserve praise and respect for spending their summer holiday in such an exhausting manner.

[jvrjenivs]

It's good to see more of these efforts. I only miss the furca's an mulliones (with animals) on this one.

Knowing from my own experience last month, it's very nice way of spending your holiday! I hope to be on march again in 2010.

[caiusbeerquitius]

I know Josef Löffl well, and was a bit astonished about these statements.
I was talking to him on the phone today to ask how the Ramshaw shoes performed which I delivered for the project (better than expected ), and asked Josef about this. He was quite unhappy.

1.:"We are not a travelling circus and we're not a petting zoo", he stresses. Which means: We are more genuine than the others.

Anybody can see where the quote starts, and wehere the quote ends. Everything that is not within the quotation is usually not from the person quoted. Just like in this example. ^^
Another good example for irresponsible and (IMO when I look at the whole article) bad journalism.

2."Die meisten Reenactment-Gruppen können nur dekorativ auf der Wiese herumstehen.."
Was taken out of context. Within the context and quite understandable for any German native speaker the statement means:
"Most reenactment groups don´t have the possibility to do what we do, and instead rather have to stand around decoratively..." to stress what a unique thing they are doing, not to degrade other groups.

Just to make sure-, Josef is a great team worker with other historians, archaeologists and reenactors, and I can hardly imagine that he would suddenly turn his mind 180° and start to degrade other´s work.

*edit*
Our forum member Florian Himmler / Flavius Promotus is also a member of this group, was also participating in this project, and is also good friends with Josef. Anyone here who had to do with Florian will probably also be able to verify that the comments above, as interpreted in the article, won´t really fit into the picture, I guess.