Battle-line rotation during the combat

[Magnus]

I'm not sure I saw those vids...not to bother, but do you remember the thread name Paul (or Jim)?

[Paullus Scipio]

Sorry, Matt...should have named the link....alas, I'm doing this in a hurry and can't recall how to post the link to an individual post.........

Tarbicus'/Jim's excellent clips are linked to on page 3, about half-way down of the thread titled "(Late)(Roman) Formations" ...incidently, a thread which has some similarities to this one when it comes to subject matter......

[Tarbicus]

Here's my post with the video links, from the Late Roman Formations thread.

http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic. ... ean#149700

[Magnus]

Thanks Gents! I'll check those out when I get up today.

[Magnus]

Figures, the one that shows the rank rotation has been removed by the user lol. Either way, that last one was absolutely amazing!

[Octavianvs]

Figures, the one that shows the rank rotation has been removed by the user lol. Either way, that last one was absolutely amazing!

Either way definitly like th esecond vid that does work shock: and not simply to replace fresh troops for tired/injured.

[Antek]

I found information about battle line rotation in Appian BC IV, 128. He claims that during the battle of Filippi both sides changed their exhausted and dead soldiers in the 1st line during the battle. It may be a good example because it's a typical Roman vs. Roman clash.

[Mitra]

I found information about battle line rotation in Appian BC IV, 128. He claims that during the battle of Filippi both sides changed their exhausted and dead soldiers in the 1st line during the battle. It may be a good example because it's a typical Roman vs. Roman clash.

My Appian translation tell " The bodies of the fallen were carried back and others stepped into their places from the rear ranks". More that rotation, is holes filling of dead's space.

[Antek]

I don't have original version, only Polish translation. The verse you are talking about is 534 but see 535: "(...) exhausted where replaced, so in the first battle line fought continuously with fresh fervor." (my own translation from Polish to English).

[Mitra]

Yes you have reason, but he tell "The generals flew hither and thither overlooking everything, exciting the men by their ardor, exhorting the toilers to toil on, and relieving those who were exhausted so that there was always fresh courage at the front." Where the word used "metopon" indicate the frontal part of army not a single rank, so Appianus can speak of classical cohort rotation.

[Tarbicus]

Davide, where do you get your translation for metopon from? The closest I get is meto, to reap or gather.

[M. CVRIVS ALEXANDER]

Try searching Perseus for meto^pon (the first O is an omega).

BTW, the entry says, in particular

front or front-line of an army, fleet, etc., A.Pers. 720, etc.; eis m. stênai to stand in line, X.Cyr.2.4.2; epi metôpou diienai, opp. epi kerôs or keras (in column), ib.2.4.3; en metôpôi kathistanai, parataxasthai, ib.2.4.4, HG2.1.23.

It seems that the term may specifically refer to a line, not a larger unit of the army, especially when it means "to stand in line" as opposite to "to stand in column."

The Liddell-Scott lexicon is here.

[Mitra]

Just returned from work, I see Alexander has already answer. Metopon like Keras refer to line and column generically so can be a line/column of men or of units. In other sense metopon can be translated like front of army and keras as flank/wing of army.

[Sardaukar]

Sorry for long absence, was kind of enjoying this debate !

I think that we can safely say that we don't really know. There definitely were practice replacing the front line casualties, but my take that is during those frequent lulls in combat.

While I remain sceptical that methodical front rank rotation could be made in melee, we do not have real evidence to say it's impossible either.