Montefortino Horse Hair Tails

[Andy]

What was the common colour of these horse hair tails on the helmets? Was it individual taste or a uniform colour? Black seems to be common.

[Matthew Amt]

Ave!

There isn't much evidence. The "Judgement of Solomon" fresco, assuming that those *are* Montefortino helmets, shows red crests.

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/Solomon.jpg

The Palestrina mosaic (also indistinct and debated) shows red and white crests. Any other depictions that I know of are stone reliefs with the paint long gone, so no way to tell.

Polybius refers to black and purple feathers during the Punic War era, but that's apparently before the horsehair tail crest came into use.

I expect reenactors use black a lot simply because it looks cool! Can't disagree with that, but it's not evidence.

Vale,

Matthew

[M. CVRIVS ALEXANDER]

Here is this one, although I have no info on the painting.

[Peroni]

That looks like an Apulo corinthian more than a Montefortino style helmet.(?)

[Nerva]

It looks Corinthian to me as well...

[M. CVRIVS ALEXANDER]

Still red crest though, unless there is an argument that the color of the crest was specific to the type of the helmet.

[Nerva]

I think this is a bit like the Tunic Wars. I would not for one second think that the fresco was anything other than art. For all we know crests could have been any colour but, I suspect, natural colours would probably more widespread.

[M. Demetrius]

Well, in a very general sense, only white or light grey, blonde, etc. could be expected to be dyed a red color. Unless the Romans had an effective hair bleach, but why would they bother, when light-colored horsehair is available?

[Tim Edwards]

Have a look at the Ptolemaic soldiers from Sidon, their kit bears a marked resemblance to contemporary Roman equipment.

See the separate discussion on this thread:

http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic. ... highlight=

There are numerous surviving depictions, such as this better known example:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/RC ... oldier.jpg

Generally, red is a poular colour.
Whether the colour scheme owes more to Hellenistic or Roman influence is up for debate, but interesting nonetheless.

Can anyone find other images? I recall seeing some a while back in a book by Nick Sekunda.

I dont recall any evidence for black crests anywhere. I was led to believe that the later crest found at Vindolanda would originally have been a red-brown colour, if that helps.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Caesar mentions somewhere the yellow crests of his soldiers, IIRC.

[Matthew Amt]

Caesar mentions somewhere the yellow crests of his soldiers, IIRC.

Hmm, I don't recall that. There is a mention in a later source to a yellow crest on a cavalry helmet--might have been Arrian?

Caesar mentions crests in the passage where his men are attacked so suddenly (while entrenching their camp) that they didn't have time to put the crests on their helmets. But I believe the word he uses is "insignia" rather than "crista", so we're just *presuming* he means crests! No color is mentioned.

Valete,

Matthew

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

No, not that passage, which I am not too familiar with, I recall one about not having time to remove scuta covers, and one about not having time to chuck spears.......but somewhere else, just cannot recall the exact passage.

[M. CVRIVS ALEXANDER]

Perhaps, next to the passage where he mentions yellow tunics? :lol:

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Perhaps, next to the passage where he mentions yellow tunics? :lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

No...in fact Idon't recall him mentioning yellow tunics either...but yellow crest is definately there somewhere, from the beginning of his commentaries IIRC :?