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Roman Army Officer Commissions
#31
I'm afraid the system was quite different by AD 408.<br>
The emperor Gallienus banned senators from military commands in around AD 260. So, from that date on, there were no laticlave tribunes.<br>
Following the early fourth century army reforms of Diocletian and Constantine, the army would have been unrecognisable to a first century observer. Most noticeably, the legions lost their pre-eminent status and became low-prestige frontier guards; the elite units were cavalry.<br>
I cannot claim any particular expertise in 5th century affairs, but I believe your chosen area of Noricum/Pannonia was in some disarray from Germanic and Gothic depredations. <p></p><i></i>
posted by Duncan B Campbell
https://ninth-legion.blogspot.com/
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#32
But I suppose bribes and protectionism still worked.<br>
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So, what military position would a young man with no experience and important friends get? Some sort of cavalry commander, I suppose.<br>
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BTW Nice to see another Campbell here. <p></p><i></i>
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#33
Most of what has been written here so far about the careers of equestrians refers, as Carina has pointed out, to the army of the Imperial era, after the sequence of prefect/tribune posts was set out by Claudius. Before this, the career of a Roman 'officer' would certainly have been a lot less easy to predict. Remember that in Caesar's day, for instance, legions had no fixed commanders - during the Gallic wars, legates were moved from one legion to the next depending (it seems) on their personal attributes (or the favour of Caesar, perhaps!) - at one point, the fourteenth legion was commanded by two legates at the same time. What goes for legates would probably have gone for tribunes too - I think it's better to see the tribunes of a legion - and those others of similar rank filling posts in the army - as a sort of floating officer cadre, moved from post to post as the need arose. In Caesar's Commentaries, there are few tribunes mentioned - perhaps many of the political placemen were indeed kept in admin positions, as the majority of Caesar's army at any point was engaged in securing food supplies and manning bases and winter camps. Actually combat was comparatively rare.<br>
There are mentions of tribunes in battle - in Commentaries VI.40 Caesar writes of a vexillation of five cohorts and 300 veterans "under the conduct of Caius Trebonius, a Roman knight (i.e equestrian tribune), who had been appointed over them…" Granted these men were originally a foraging party before they were attacked by German raiders, and it's not clear whether Trebonius (not the later assassin, incidentally!) was leading the full five cohorts or just the veterans, but clearly as a tribune he had battlefield seniority.<br>
As for tribunes commanding two cohorts - I don't see why not, although I doubt this was a fixed command. If a vexillation of two (or more) cohorts were being detached from the legion, obviously the senior centurion of either could not have commanded both, so who better than a tribune?<br>
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Commissioning and promotion in pre-Imperial times seems to have been fairly haphazard. Cicero's letters provide an insight into the nepotistic practices of his day. Writing to Caesar in February 54bc, he recommends one Trebatius Testa, an equestrian and a promising young lawyer, for a post in the army of Gaul: "no honester, better, or more modest man exists," says Cicero. "Added to this, he is at the top of his profession as a jurisconsult, possesses an unequaled memory and the most profound learning. For such a man I ask neither a tribuneship, prefecture, nor any definite office, I ask only your goodwill and liberality..." No mention of military experience, and so we can assume that Testa has none, but Cicero's letter implies that a tribuneship or prefecture for such a man would not be unheard of. In the same letter, Cicero quotes Caesar on one Miscinius Rufus, a previous appointee, now an officer under Quintus Lepta, Caesar's Praefectus Fabrum. Caesar says "send me someone else to promote". For commanders of the day, of course, giving military appointments and promotions was a great way to increase and stabilise a personal client network; I suspect this might have been why the emperors formalised the process!<br>
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Earlier in the thread, Aaron mentioned Horace at Philippi:<br>
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Quote:</em></strong><hr>For instance, in the case of Horace himself, he was the son of a freedman, clearly low-class, and yet somehow ended up commanding a whole legion before the civil wars were all over<hr><br>
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I'm not sure that Horace commanded a legion at any time - it's most likely that he was a tribune at the battle, and was later famed for throwing his shield away and fleeing before combat (possibly a story made up to appease the Augustan regime, or to echo a famous poem by Archilochus, in which a mercenary soldier dumps his shield and deserts the fight - the poem was quite famous in Greece, and led to Archilochus being banned in Sparta for his unmanly sentiments!). Brutus and co recruited their army in the east, of course, as Italy was closed to them - Horace would have been one of the many wealthy young Romans studying at the academies of Athens and Rhodes, which had been finishing schools for young gentlemen for centuries. His father was supposedly a freedman, but to have afforded an Athenian education for his son he must have become fairly rich since manumission (not at all unlikely - remember the millionaire ex-slave Trimalchio in Petronius). As a freedman, he could not have joined the equestrian order, but his son Horace would have been a full Roman citizen, and therefore eligible - Brutus and Cassius, in desperate straits, would likely not have enquired into the exact circumstances, but it was wealth and standing that mattered, and as a university student Horace obviously had both. He had no military experience, of course, but the idea seems to have been that wealth and status brought obligation and a natural sense of responsibility. This notion prevailed into modern times - the British Navy of the 18th century was led by aristocrats, and didn't perform too badly.<br>
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Incidentally, Roman social classes are quite confusing - the patrician/plebian distinction had no real political effect after the early years of the Republic, and was not connected with the senatorial/equestrian divide - either could be patricians or plebians. Equestrians did become senators, and vice versa (though less often), but in the late republic the patrician order had decayed to a few ancient families. Imperial bloodlines resuscited the old distinction for a while, but in terms of actual social, political or military effect the only differences that mattered were between the nobility - senatorial and equestrian - and the rest.<br>
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Nathan Ross
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#34
Military structures in late Republican and early Imperial times might have been a mess, but at least you have sources and can always point out you followed a certain one.<br>
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In 480 AD there seem to be no sources, and I'm at a loss what rank my novel character would get. He is young, but member of the nobility; his dad is wealthy and a friend of Stilicho. I can guess that his command would most likely be cavalry, because it got strengthened then (and a good part of his troop would probably consist of Goths, Vandals and such).<br>
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But were the titles of <em>tribunus cohortis</em> and <em>praefectus alae</em> still in use? I would settle for these, but if I'm wrong, it will be people on these forums who are the first to blame me for not having done my homework. <p></p><i></i>
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#35
Gabriele - concerning the later army, Jones in 'The Later Roman Empire' notes that 'tribune' seems to have used as a general term to indicate a military officer of various degrees (which confuses matters!). As the senatorial order no longer had any military authority, all positions would be held by equestrians, and promotion would be very much a matter of friends in high places (particularly the court hierarchy, which by this stage was appropriately 'Byzantine' in its complexity.) The Notitia Dignitatum gives a handy digest of the higher military positions in each province (Praefectus Legionis being the term used instead of Legate). These pages give the rundown - including the legions present - for Illyricum:<br>
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www.ne.jp/asahi/luke/ueda...ricum.html<br>
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and Noricum (Ripensis):<br>
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www.ne.jp/asahi/luke/ueda...ricum.html <p></p><i></i>
Nathan Ross
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#36
Thank you, that helps.<br>
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So, the title of <em>tribunus cohortis</em> is still in use and a rank inferior to the <em>praefectus legionis</em> (what in the Marcian hierarchy would have been the <em>praefectus alae</em>?). A frontier castellum like Vindobona surely would have had a cavalry unit. I'll get my MC in as tribunus cohortis and have his ambitious daddy complain that he has not yet been promoted praefectus legionis. He can command the cavalry, because it would be nice to show later that the Goths in his unit after Stilicho's assassination will desert to King Alaric. Maybe, I can finish that chapter for good tonight.<br>
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I'm a specialist for Mediaeval times and just begin to work my way into the Dark Ages. I know a lot about the Picts and Scots, as well as the Goths, but details of the Roman side are so tricky. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=gabrielecampbell>gabriele campbell</A> at: 7/24/04 9:09 pm<br></i>
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