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07-13-2004, 04:01 AM

Hi: 
I have searched the archives and found nothing on glues used by the Romans. I may not have searched correctly, though. 
Does anyone know the types of glues the Romans would have used? How would they have laminated their shields? 
I assume some sort of animal based glues. But that is just an assumption. 
 
Kevin

aitor iriarte · 07-13-2004, 04:36 AM

Hide glue or fish glue. You can still find the first one easily. 
I remember that there was a thread on glues some time ago... 
 
Aitor

07-15-2004, 02:55 PM

Simon James in his book on Dura Europos writes about a mixture of glue and fibers (wood fibers?) for the shields. 
Could it be the ancient version of fiberglass? 
I don't mean fiberglass, but the same principle, the fibers reinforcing the stuff.. 
I'd check the book if I could but I'm in jail.. No strike that, I'm at the office right now.. 
From what I saw on the book a shield was much more than simple planking with a handle. It was more elaborate and engineered than previously thought.

07-19-2004, 09:39 PM

Glues used in ancient times is a topic that im currenty researching in context to the greek linothorax, they used glue made from milk, bulls(any cow) and fish along with pine resins (waterproofing for ships) as stated before bulls or hide glue is readily avaliable from good hardware stores. Fish glue was made from thee float bladders of fish so that one is a bit more complicated. milk glue is made from removeing the protein from milk (curds) and leaving the water and fat components (way)((wrong spelling im sure)) there are a few recipes on the web just type "milk glue" into google. none of these glues are waterproof on their own and the addition of about 1% of lime was apparently used to make them so. 
The pine resins are still a bit of a work in progress and how they were applied, apparently they were made from boiling timber fragments in water to extract the oil and then reduced it down and painted it onto boats while still hot, resin has one big advantage of that it was see through so they could use it to paint over already colored painted surfaces.

07-21-2004, 12:22 AM

Isn't wood glue close to hide glue? [url=http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Segontium/" target="top]groups.yahoo.com/group/Segontium/[/url]

07-21-2004, 04:07 AM

Thanks: 
Aitor: Hide Glue seems to be the most common and easy to obtain. 
Antoninus: This sounds interesting. An ancient fibre glue. 
jhhoffman: Your research sounds to be quite innteresting. Just out of curiosity, what are your sources? Please keep us informed. 
 
Kevin

07-22-2004, 02:11 AM

Its all in knowing where to look. 
 
I have spent lots of time ploughing through ancient texts especially greek looking for the word "kolla", that and looking at the history of greek and roman art, many of the fixers they used were just heavily diluted glues. 
This is extremley time consuming so if your looking for a really good book about the technological abilities of the ancients i can happily recommend; 
Humphrey,J.W. Olsen,J.P. and Sherwood,A.n. "GREEK AND ROMAN TECHNOLOGY", Routledge,1998, London ISBN 0-415-06137-7 
These guys have referenced and quoted thousands of ancient sources in relation to technological questions. 
 
jason

07-22-2004, 04:00 AM

Jason: 
Thanks for the reference. 
 
Kevin

07-23-2004, 11:30 AM

I checked the Dura Europos book. S. James writes about "colloidal" glue mixed up with "lignous fibers". 
These are wood fibers, as for "colloidal" glue, I have no clue as to what it is. 
Another detail, the famous rectangular shield was, more logically, covered with linen then faced with sheepskin, and not the reverse, which is the result of a wrong reading of the notes taken during excavations. It's the sheepskin that was painted. Not the linen. 
Fragments of three, maybe four other rectangular shields show traces of that colloidal/lignous mixture.

07-24-2004, 09:39 AM

More than likely the collolial glue you refer too is hide glue or what the greeks called "Taurine Kolla" the word kolla is still the greek word for glue and more than likley the source of the english word collagen. 
 
Jason

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