Mithras worship : the origin of modern bull fighting ?

[Theodosius the Great]

Avete,

I just read about this theory about the origin of modern bull fighting.
It states that the prevalence of Mithraic worship among the Roman legions in the provinces had spread the practice of sacrificing bulls among the local populations living near legionary bases.

It sounds unlikely to me since bull fighting in Europe has only been a tradition limited to parts of Western Europe (i.e. Spain, Portugal, southern France).

What do you think about the theory ?
I'm sure there are more holes in it but nonetheless I thought it to be interesting.

~Theo

[Susanna]

European Bull-Fighting goes back to the 18th cent.
The first Bull-Fighting Arena has been built around 1750,
around 1800 the first written rules appear in a book,
first school was found in 1830.

That is what my books and also wikipedia say.

So there is not direct connection that could be proved.

[Marcus Mummius]

The Minoans liked playing with bulls too (freso dated around 1500BC):

[Carlton Bach]

If there is a tradition (and there may be), it's more likely the arena venationes than Mithras worship. Bull sacrifice was common in most ancient religious practices as the most expensive and hence noblest animal sacrifice. But there are surviving animal fighting scenes in a Visigothic church in Spain. If the tradition survived (and there is no guarantee the artist didn't just copy a consular diptych in relief), that puts it in the right place. And an interval of centuries before fixed infrastructure is provided needn't be a problem. When was the first rodeo arena built? Rural 'sports' tend to need little more than open spaces to thrive.

[Susanna]

@Volker: I meant the modern form, sorry if my posting was misleading.
The form in which it is done today.

The history itself is not clear as I made reasearch about it when it came to our arena CD to accompaign venationes.
There you find the first resources about its modern form in the early 18th cent.
BUT...
before that you have also resources in Antiquity and the Medieval Age:

- founds and sources (f.e. pictures) in Egypt, Mesopotamia and Greece
but mostly for peaceful "games" with the animal and close to rites
and festivities like marriages

- Moorish Spain got some sources: marriage, birth, festivities

But it changed from rite/worship to sports for noblemen in the 18th cent.
After that it slowly became "professionell sports" for trained and skilled poeple who did it as their job.

So far...sadly there is a "maybe tradition" but its form and background changed so much that I think you cannot put them in one line...
but it has a strong historical and tradional background of course,
for Mithras Cult as Volker said, no, but maybe for rites from marriages,
otherwise...
I would really like to play "Paso Doble" with our ancient instruments.

:wink: roll: :roll:

[Servio Caro (Javier Sánc]

Hi all!

this fresco really looks like the forcados from Portugal!



there are more kinds of bullfight than the one people are used to see, like the forcados, and the rejones bullfight. In the last one, the bullfighter rides a horse, you can see it here:

[url:a2p8evzy]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAutFtg_G6U[/url]

[Theodosius the Great]

Quite right, I forgot the Greeks were into bull sacrifice as well. So the practice would have been known all over the Eastern Mediterranean if it wasn't already present before Alexander. (In Judaism, I just learned, the high priests would sacrifice bulls while Kings would offer goats.) And the Romans were already practicing it before Mithraic religion was adopted by many legionaries.

If the Western Empire had lasted a little longer I suspect we wouldn't have bullfighting today in any form. Animal sacrifices in the East were successfully suppressed by the Empire probably under Theodosius or Justinian, imo.

Hmm...I have doubts about any Moorish contributions to bullfighting. AFAIK, there's no Berber or Arab tradition involving such games.

Anyway, I thought it was an interesting idea to discuss.

Thank you, all.

~Theo

[Susanna]

Because of that I wrote, Moorish SPAIN.

Bullfighting written-source:
Marriage of Urraca, daughter of Alfons VII. (who was Christian)
with prince Garcia VI. of Navarra, took place in 1144 AD.

::wink:

[Wander]

I wonder if bull sacrifice connects to the "Bull of Heaven" killed in the Sumerian Epic of Gilgamesh. As I recall, the gods sent the bull to punish Gilgamesh for his pride, but he killed it instead.

As a side note, I'd always thought the Minoan sport/ritual of bull-leaping involved aurochs, and the size of the bull in the above fresco would certainly be in line with that.