AUTUN HELMET... HELP!!!

[Anonymous]

Hello all..........<br>
<br>
is there anyone on here who has good photographs of the AUTUN first century winged bronze parade helmet as described in Mr. Russel Robinson's book the armour of imperial Rome?<br>
<br>
the only photo i come across is at the musee de rolin website...<br>
<br>
Hope any of you has or can obtain quality images of this helmet...<br>
<br>
best wishes... and thanx in advance!<br>
<br>
<p></p><i></i>

[Crispvs]

M.V.M.<br>
<br>
You could try having a look in Robinson's own book. He shows four photos: side view, back view, three quarter view and underside view.<br>
<br>
Hope this helps<br>
<br>
Crispvs <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

Thank you, but i am afraid they are not detailed enough....<br>
<br>
best wishes,<br>
<br>
<p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

<img src="http://lucretius.homestead.com/files/autun_helmet.jpg" style="border:0;"/><br>
Sorry. That is the only one I have.<br>
And Help!! here too. A while ago someone posted a link (I think) on a site with roman sculpture and a slab represented a helmet of the Autun type, with neck guard of banded construction, facing another helmet of the same flamboyant style.<br>
Those are obviously the inspiration for the bizarre "All'antiche" parade helmets made in Italy during the Renaissance.<br>
After along search I gave up looking for that useful post which is buried somewhere.<br>
So.. If someone remembers posting that thing..<br>
It should go into the tabularium.<br>
It demonstrates that the Autun helmet was not a unique piece, but a specific style, most certainly reserved to the higher ranking officers.<br>
This type of helmet I think was never properly published.<br>
We have some work to do, here..<br>
<br>
Here's the Email of the musée Rolin, in Autun which holds the piece:<br>
[email protected] <br>
I'd gladly send a message myself but I killed my MS Outlook Express on my PC a loooong time ago, being a prudent person..<br>
<p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=antoninuslucretius@romanarmytalk>Antoninus Lucretius</A> <IMG HEIGHT=10 WIDTH=10 SRC="http://lucretius.homestead.com/files/Cesar_triste.jpg" BORDER=0> at: 6/26/04 4:48 pm<br></i>

[Paullus]

That thing almost looks like a technological continuation of the Etrusco-Corinthian type Ugly though One thing you can't comment on is Roman taste in parade helmets. <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

Well I think it is a beautiful helmet anyway.............<br>
<br>
love etrusco corinthian style...<br>
<br>
but the attachment of the neck-plates is what i wonder about...<br>
<br>
since it looks very Samurai to me.........<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

hellooooooooooooooo<br>
<br>
any others have any ifo or anything to say about this helmet or any other etrusco corinthian officer type helmets???<br>
<br>
regds...............<br>
<br>
<p><span style="color:yellow;font-family:times new roman;font-size:medium;">M.VIB.M.<br>
V COH II<br>
LEGIO X GEMINA<br>
EX GER INF</span></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

I was recently in Autun and took one good photo of the helmet that interests you. I have posted the 500k image at www.christucker.co.uk/helmet.jpg .
<br>
Incidentally the helmet is so flimsy and amateurish looking that it is hard to believe that it could have been used for any roman military use, including "parade". If it is indeed roman in date then it is more likely to have been used as costume in the theatre of the time. <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

I posted this quite some time ago.<br>
Obviously no one remembers anything about that relief..s<br>
<br>
<br>
While we're on unusual helmets, someone posted a link some time ago that took you to an imagebase or roman military sculptures --not Jasper's imagebase, another.<br>
There was a stone there. If I remember well it was a text of some sort, flanked on both sides by helmets. The interesting thing about those helmets is that they were of the pseudo-corinthian, or etrusco-corinthian type. The sculpture was from 1st/2nd C.AD.<br>
On the left side of the text was a pretty good representation of a piece whose single specimen was found at Autun (France). It's the helmet with the neck guard made of three strips of metal mounted on leathers and the triple laurel crown.<br>
On the right side was another etrusco-corinthian, without the three strip construction on the neck guard, but with the sides of the helmet rolled up above the cheek guards. It looked like a Twinkie..<br>
Naturally, I forgot to bookmark the darn thing, so, after seeking the said darn thing for ages, I am down to begging info as to the whereabouts of that link.<br>
That is, if someone remembers.. <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

Mansio, that URL doesn't work...And about flimsy looking: maybe what we have is only the bronze plating of an iron piece that has totally rusted away..<br>
<p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=antoninuslucretius@romanarmytalk>Antoninus Lucretius</A> <IMG HEIGHT=10 WIDTH=10 SRC="http://lucretius.homestead.com/files/Cesar_triste.jpg" BORDER=0> at: 7/19/04 11:00 am<br></i>

[Anonymous]

Works for me. Are you including the final stop, or something? <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

Hello all... Brilliant that i have the photo now! thank you!!<br>
<br>
just one thought, or a few actually...<br>
<br>
you said tyou think the helmet might have been theatrical and in your eyes looked a bit flimsy...<br>
<br>
I think that since we do not have the circumstances of the find, archaeological evicence of the site where it has been found, maps, finds that came along with the helmet, how was it "in situ"? we cannot judge at all wether this is the real deal or not....... so my next question is if the helmet has ever been thoroughly described archaologically... if so, does anyone know where to find the report on it? (maybe Mike Bishop knows???)<br>
<br>
I think that it would be interesting if we could have a site which would have descriptions of finds and the photos, rather than this helmet was found near, or this is a fibula....<br>
<br>
best wishes!<br>
<br>
<p></p><i></i>

[Uwe Bahr]

Mansio,<br>
<br>
thank You for sharing this very nice photo with us, the best I have ever seen about this helmet (and the second ...).<br>
<br>
I have yet one question. The photo does not show the top of the helmet. Do You remember if there was anything visible about something like a crest holder or a crest box, traces of soldering?<br>
<br>
Uwe<br>
<br>
PS:<br>
<br>
Antoninus Lucretius,<br>
<br>
for me the URL did not work first, too. I don't know if You found out in the meantime how to get the photo: the reason was, I copied the hole address with the last point from Mansio's textwww.christucker.co.uk/helmet.jpg.), try it again without the point after jpg:<br>
www.christucker.co.uk/helmet.jpg <br>
<br>
<br>
<p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

<br>
Thanks Uwe..<br>
And thanks Mansio for the great picture. That piece is even weirder than I thought. It's actually covered in laurel leaves!<br>
Also: it looks like there are only two laurel crowns, whereas some other pictures seem to show three.(?)<br>
And I don't think that helmet has ever been published, although the record of the find may exist somewhere.<br>
<p></p><i></i>

[Crispvs]

Robinson published the helmet in the section on officer's helmets, but I don't think he mentioned the circumstances of the find (I'll check when I get home).<br>
<br>
Antoninus, you can see the third wreath at the top of the helmet. The right end of it is sticking up perpendicular to the wreath below in the photo above.<br>
<br>
Crispvs <p></p><i></i>