Late Sarmatian or early Alan costume

[Nieczar]

Hello

I'm looking for some information about Sarmatian-Alan costume from 4-5th cen.

I've few exemples of early period (1-2th. cen) and a lot of very late period (7-12th cen.) but nothing from 4-5th cen.

I can't find enything even in Russian ...exept some articels about weaponery and metalwork.

Maybe someone knows something about it ?

Thanx for any help.

[Robert Vermaat]

This man may be an Alan. These mosaics are almost always described as depicting Vandals, but the horse has an Alan tamga sgn on it, which speaks sooner for an Alan rider than a Vandal. We know that a large Alan group attached themselves to the Vandals in Spain before crossing into Africa with them. I find it more reasonable to assume that we see one of them here than to assume that the Vandals in those few years somehow assimilated part of the Alan culture and afterwards adorned their horses with tamga symbols too.

Another one:
http://www.usu.edu/markdamen/1320Hist&C ... vandal.jpg

[Alanus]

Robert gives good stuff. I hadn't seen this illustration, but a similar one from Carthage... or wherever it was. Evidently tight trousers were popular. I might ad that by the late 4th and early 5th century, any "Sarmatian" holdover may have been influenced by Germanic tribes in the Hungarian Plain area. Early Sarmatian costume extented from the western Scythian culture, while Alanic costume was more stylistic as borrowed from the Sogdians, former neighbors and the closest in language to the Alans. So actually, we are speaking about two entirely different cultures: Sarmatians (western Iranian) and Alans (northeastern Iranian).

Somewhere I have a link to "Late Sogdian Costume," which I'll try to unearth. Boots appear to have heels. Kaftans were decorated in yellow, red, and white embroidery. I imagine the famous tall Saka hat was worn, just as it still is by the descendants of old neighbors, the Kyrgaz. Quite frankly, modern costumes from the old Alanic areas may reflect a combination of older Alanic and Hunnic tradition.

Evidently they dressed fairly spiffy, not your old barbarians in furs type. Emperor Gratian loved to wear Alanic clothes... until he was killed for it.

Alanus
A.J. the wimpy bowman

[Robert Vermaat]

"Sarmatian" holdover may have been influenced by Germanic tribes in the Hungarian Plain area. Early Sarmatian costume extented from the western Scythian culture, while Alanic costume was more stylistic as borrowed from the Sogdians, former neighbors and the closest in language to the Alans. So actually, we are speaking about two entirely different cultures: Sarmatians (western Iranian) and Alans (northeastern Iranian).

Too true. But during the time we speak of (4-5th c.) the dress of both Sarmatians as well as Alans will have been influenced by (as well as influencing) the peoples they have been living among.

[Alanus]

Exactly.

Those influences would come from east and west, the Huns-Hepthalites and the East Germans. I think, if I remember correctly, there are some good illustrations in the Ospray books, "Germanic Warrior" and something like "Archers of the Steppes."

The article that originally came to mind was "Late Sogdian Costume" by Sergey A. Yatsenko, www.transoxiana.org . He illustrates costume from the 1st to 3rd centuries, mid Alanic influence on the Sogdians and verse vica, and then 5th to 8th centuries with the Hepthalite-Hunnic influence. Note that Procopius called the Hepthalites "Huns" in some sections and "Massagetae" in other sections of his histories.

But we can imagine a heavy Germanic clothing influence upon the Alans attached to both the Goths and Vandals. Nonetheless, some things perhaps never changed, as can be seen in Robert's illustration-- tight trousers and the horse's tamga that goes back at least half a millennium or more.

P.S. I clicked to that link Robert gave, and the caption to the illustration noted that the guy was wearing "sandals." As we all know, most horsemen-- just about everywhere-- wore sandals, especally in the American west and Tunisia, where feet get overly heated from the 130 degree heat. Or just possibly the illustration really shows a pair of boots secured by two wide wrap-around laces. Your vote:

(a) Alanic and Vandal horsemen wore sandals.
(b) Only John Wayne wore sandals when playing Gengis Khan.
© Saint Peter wore sandals only during the eucharist.
(d) Horsemen wore boots, even the Romans who normally walked in sandals.


Best Regards, and tight sandals,
Alanus
A.J. bow-twanger

[Paullus Scipio]

Alanus wrote:

So actually, we are speaking about two entirely different cultures: Sarmatians (western Iranian) and Alans (northeastern Iranian).

....I would be wary of this hypothesis......it seems to me that the steppe peoples rather than being 'white' in the west and 'black' in the east, were all shades of grey, starting with light grey in the west and ending in dark grey in the east....i.e. that each neighbouring people influnced the culture of the next.....and again as each group over-ran neighbouring peoples, or migrated and came into contact with other peoples.....it is in fact very difficult to distinguish Sarmatian from Alan....for example those famous "Sarmatians" who troubled Domitian's and Trajan's Legions on the Danube were the Rhox-Alani ( white or western Alans).The Eastern Alans also came to be dominated by the Huns....all in all, the admixture of peoples seems to have been very fluid, making it extremely difficult to distinguish between the various nomad peoples of the "Sea of Grass" (the steppes).....

[Alanus]

True again.

I was referring to "cultures" in a tight context. There was a difference between the Sauromatae-Sarmatian culture and the more eastern Alanic culture, probably because the Sarmatians were influenced by the Scythians and Greeks. They had "slaves," actually more like what we now call "low clients," and they used short Scythian-styled swords. (Tacitus) The Alans attached no slaves to themselves, and all considered themselves free, or "noble" as Ammianus phrased it. Only when they joined the East Germanic tribes did this notion change, since the Goths and Vandals had "unfree" clients. But in either case, these unfree were not anything like the Roman concept of a slave.

The Roxolani used a longer sword with possibly a lighter blade, maybe a Chinese influence upon the early Saka. When the Roxolani arrived upon the Hungarian Plain and combined their culture with the Iazyges (Saraumatae), then we find the term "Sarmatians" used to describe this group. After the end of the 2n century, the Hungarian graves change, more tumuli and the presence of longer swords. (Harmatta)

I was simply saying that the overall influences upon the Sauromatae- Sarmatians was heavily western (Scythian-Greek), while the Alanic culture has a definate eastern influence (Chinese-Hunnic). The people buried in the kurgans of the Altai, Issyk Kul, and then at Filippovka have Asiatic features in the nasal and facial structure (aka Saka-Massagetae-Alanic) while the Sauromatae-Scythians do not seem to have these features. The Sauromatae spoke a language very close to Scythian, but Herodotus explained that "they never learnt it (Scythian) properly;" while the Alans spoke a northeastern Iranian tongue that was related to Sogdian; the implication, I suppose, being that both of these more eastern cultures extended from the Saka, the "tall hat Scythians."

But as you note, these Sarmatian and Alanic cultures were further influenced by the East Germans and then the Romans. I agree-- no culture stands alone... infused enough that Attila and his brother Blaeda had Gothic names.

Back to costume, obviously some cultural differences were never accepted. The Huns, just as Turkic peoples today, wore loose-fitting boots and trousers that the Alans never seem to have adopted. The pill-box hat may have been Turkic but most likely Sogdian, and it was even adopted as informal dress in the Roman army... as was the ancient steppe-Indic swastika.

Alanus
A.J. Campbell

[Nieczar]

thanx everyones for discussion

I found some sources of 4-6th. cen. costume of Easten People but there's no exemple of native source for Alans ...from early period it's no problem ...same late period

interesting article I put in below...but it's in Russian

...I try to find native sources
the biggest problem is with head-wear ,shoes and trousers (or other kind of legs-costume)...for rest parts (caftans ,tunics) there's no problem.....I mean the problem is only with dating of some parts becouse between 1st and 8th. cen. we got many exemples of artefacts ...but I don't know nothing from exactly 4-5th. cen. from native Alans area

Alans were a part of some Sarmatians ...and in 4-5th. cen. they lived between others nations ,for exemple some East Germanians and early Slavs (there's some hipothese the Slavs were a part of some Alans mixed with some group of Baltic Nations....it's one of many teories of "slavic genesis") ....and near of Bizantium Area ....and off course Huns

...in my opinin is more possible to use by Alans some germanic or slavic styles of clothing ....I'm thinking abaut native area

och, here 's good book about Alan's history ...one of basic of this subject :
http://iratta.com/2007/07/08/oglavlenij ... enijj.html