Aurochs in the Arena?

[Wander]

I've heard speculation that the "bulls" used in the Minoan sport of bull-leaping were actually aurochsen, based on the size and conformation of the bulls illustrated. If this is correct (and I don't doubt it), I can't imagine that the Romans could ever resist the idea of such an oversized bull as an aurochs in the arena -- maybe pitted against an elephant, for instance.

Do we know of any documentation that would support this? I can imagine them being simply described as "bulls," but there might be graphic depictions on mosaics, etc., that would indicate their size.

PS: According to an essay by the late naturalist Stephen Jay Gould, in the early 20th century a number of scientists in Europe actually succeeded in "breeding backward" to produce the aurochs. The program was disrupted by WWII, and the remaining specimens were last released into forests in Poland -- where I presume they were shot and eaten by German soldiers. Anybody know anything about this, either?

Thank you.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Hmmm I thought there was a breed still alive somewhere that fit this description.......threw me, as I thought they were totally extinct.....

unfortunately, I cannot recall the place or event.... :?

[Wander]

If they still have some, that would be news to me -- but good news. Of course, what was done with 1920s and 30s breeding science could probably be re-done today, if the will and the money existed.

Imagine doing a bestiarius or venatione scene in a movie using one of those beasts... then again, it would be a lot safer to do it with CGI. But it would be awe-inspiring to see.

[abou]

There was a weak hypothesis that you could bring back a species by selected breeding if the traits still existed in modern cattle. This is what became known as Heck Cattle. Although Heck Cattle have similar features to the Aurochs they are not a separate species from modern cattle nor are they genetically similar to the Aurochs (I've seen the singular form of the noun with both the S and without).

BTW, the song "Lament for the Auroch" by The Sword is freaking awesome. \\m/

[Wander]

If I understand correctly, you're implying that the "Aurochsen" the breeders came up with in Poland were actually Heck Cattle? I would have thought Stephen Jay Gould, who was a fine scientist and forgot more than I'll ever know about genetics, would have been more careful with his statements. But a quick scan of Wiki supports what you're saying, and I'm willing to accept it.

So if we grant that the Aurochs is gone, and Heck Cattle are the nearest we're likely to see (unless DNA is discovered and cloned), it still leaves me wondering if the Romans used them for arena sports. The only reason I can imagine why they wouldn't would be if they were too difficult to bring to the city -- but it seems to me that anyone who can capture and transport rhinoceri to the Flavian Amphitheatre should be able to handle an aurochs or two.

(BTW, I've always understood that the singular to be "aurochs," and the plural, "aurochsen." This is consistent with Germanic plurals, and incidentally sounds a lot like "oxen," which got its plural the same way.)

[abou]

Genetics is a tricky thing. I personally don't know if any research has been done on heck cattle compared to modern cattle. The end result is aesthetical since a single difference in the number of paired chromosomes means all the difference let alone the alignment of gene copies.

I would like to think my degree in biology means something!

[john m roberts]

Are there remains of the extinct breed from which DNA samples have been extracted? Incidentally, in the novel "Quo Vadis" Henryk Sienkiewicz featured an aurochs in the Roman arena. And I always thought "aurochs" was both singular and plural, like bison.

[abou]

Hmmm... seems as though my silly self may have spoken too soon. DNA and mitochondrial DNA tests have been done which show a very close relation to the Aurochs... in fact, it seems that Aurochsen may have actually bred with domesticated cattle. DNA, if well enough preserved, can be extracted from bone so that is probably how it was done.

According to the abstracts I've read, all extant cattle in the world can hybridize successfully and produce viable offspring. This makes me question if it is fair to call the different species species at all. To me it seems more like breeds of dog than anything else.

So think of it as trying to take dogs and breed back the physical appearance and traits of a wolf. You can sort of do it, but it wouldn't be a wolf.

[Wander]

At the risk of straying too far from Rome...

Some evolutionary biologists are now starting to say there almost is no such thing as speciation. Conventionally (as I'm sure you know) animals are considered conspecific if they are able to breed and produce viable offspring. The problem is that, across the dimensions of both space and time, a species' DNA drifts enough that while A may breeed with B, and B breeds with C, A and C cannot breed. The example comes to mind because we see Aurochs sharing significant DNA with modern cattle (and hence Heck cattle), and we know modern cattle can breed with American bison (producing "beefalo"), and American bison are sometimes said to be conspecific with the European wisent. This shows the bos/bison genus as a continuum, similar to the dog/wolf canis/lupis genus.

Biological labels aside, does anyone know if the Heck cattle display any of the aggressive temperament of the aurochs? (Maybe they should breed them with Spanish fighting bulls -- there's a direct descendant of Roman arena bloodsports.) Of course, that's if we really want a very large, powerful, and aggressive animal.

I've neither read Quo Vadis nor seen the movie(s) made from it. Does anyone know if the aurochs scene made it into a movie? If it was well done, I'd buy the DVD just to see that -- not to mention the rest.

[john m roberts]

The movie made in the 50s had the scene, but the bull was just a modern cattle-critter. Buddy Baer played the Christian slave who broke its neck. (And Baer, brother of world heavyweight champ Max Baer, looked like he could do it, too.)

[Wander]

Thanks for the answer.

And John, I'd just like to mention how much I'm enjoying your SPQR books. Great fun; I hope you plan to do a lot more of them!

[Wander]

Well -- one more note on the aurochs question, though it might not change anything: My Penguin Historical Atlas of Ancient Rome (Chris Scarre, 1995, Penguin Books Ltd., trade paperback ed.) has, on pages 82-83, a two-page spread entitled, "The Roman Amphitheatre." This includes a map showing where animals for the games came from. It specifically shows the aurochs as coming from the Noricum region.

Unfortunately, it doesn't cite any specific primary sources for this, so it's a secondary source at best.