speeches in Polybius

[teg]

Speeches in Polybius - are they authentical or not? I am especially interested in the speech of Aetolian Alexander (XVIII 3.3) and in the speeches of generals before battles.

[Dan Howard]

I don't think any speeches in any of the ancient Greek or Roman sources are authentic unless they are a transcript. At best some were embellished interpretations of the attributed person's speech, but most were complete fabrications.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Yes, I believe at best they were interpretations and embellishments of the 'jist' of what may have been said, to give reader the flavour of the speech so to speak.

[Alexandr K]

Hi,

look at these articles:

Hansen, M.H., 1993. The battle exhortation in ancient historiography, fact or fiction? Historia, 42, 161-180.

Pritchett, W.K., 1994. The General's Exhortation in Greek Warfare. In Essays in Greek History, Amsterodam, 27-109.

Hansen, M.H., 1998. The Little Grey Horse: Henry V's Speech at Agincourt and the Battle Exhortation in Ancient Historiography. Histos, 2. Available at: http://www.dur.ac.uk/Classics/histos/1998/hansen.html .

Zoido, J.C.I., 2007. The Battle Exhortation in Ancient Rhetoric. Rhetorica, 25(2), 141-158.

Ehrhardt, C.T.H.R., 1995. Speeches before battle? Historia, 44, 120-121.

Greetings
Alexandr

[teg]

Can you send me (gradually. of course) the articles about speeches you have mentioned? My e-mail is [email protected] . I also have some additional requests:

1. Schepens G. Polybius as a historian of Punic wars:the problem of objectivity. In: Punic wars (Orientalia Lovanensia analecta, 33 (1989)). P. 317-327.

2. Pedech P. Polybe hipparque de la confederation acheenne (170-169 avant J.C.). Etudes Classiques, 37 (1969) : p. 252-259.

3. Barcelo P. The perception of Carthage in Classical Greek Historiography. Acta Classica, 37(1994):1-14.

4. Golan D. Polybius and the Third Macedonian war. Ant. Class. 58 (1989). P. 112-127. I will be glad if somebody will scan and send even some of them.

[D B Campbell]

Speeches in Polybius - are they authentical or not?

Frank Walbank (surprise!) has written a short book on this subject: [amazon]Speeches in Greek historians[/amazon] (1965). I have not read it, but it was favourably reviewed. (See attached example.)

Apparently, he concludes that the speeches in Polybius reflect, more or less, what was actually said.

[Kineas]

The Cambridge History of Greek and Roman warfare (by far the best survey recently published on many subjects relevant to this forum, and worth every penny!) says that this is one of the most hotly debated subjects in ancient history-that is, the existence of speeches in warfare. worth noting that when there's debate amongst academics, there really isn't an "answer."

As an experienced military officer and reenactor, I have to say that in most times of serious hardship, real adversity, or genuine desire to win a competitive event, I've found that a dozen well selected sentences are worth quite a bit. I think that all speeches come down to the following line:

"If we all pull together, we can win this thing."

It works. So I tend to believe that such speeches at least existed. I think most people can judge the validity of the speeches in Polybius on the following criteria--would you, if you were sweaty and hot and wearing armour and in danger of losing your life, follow a man who gave this speech? )
On the other hand, my squadron skipper gave all of us the most moving speech I've ever heard (by the way, a man who had won so many decorations that he was sort of the hero of heroes to all of us--Timoleon and Alexander all in one man). We were just back from the first Gulf War, and we were asked to do something really hard that meant more than physical danger--it meant going away from our families AGAIN after 9 months at sea. It was one of the most moving speeches I'd ever heard--we all talked about it for years, and we never regretted volunteering.

None of us can remember more than about four sentences of that speech. (shrug). Okay, but none of us can remember 26K lines of epic poetry, either, so the point may be worthless!

) )