04-08-2004, 10:08 AM
A few remarks, first about the information industry and how news travel nowadays.<br>
The first bit of news was published by DPA, the German wire service. It was picked up by the AFP bureau in Berlin, translated and put on AFP wires.<br>
It was also picked up by UPI, AP and Reuters, of course.<br>
That's where I saw it. Since I was busy then I only wrote a brief summary of the story and posted it.<br>
Then the whole original DPA story was posted --with a pretty decent translation, I've seen worse, professionnally...<br>
In short, it is still the one and only original DPA story.<br>
Conclusion: we don't know much about this site besides the fact that it's there and that artefacts were found, tentatively attributed to the last years BC.<br>
Apparently, decorated axes were found. It could be dolabrae with decorated blade protections --there's one in the Guttmann collection-- or it could be lictors' axes.. That would be more interesting. I'll wait for the pictures.<br>
That camp was not hidden. I'm pretty sure the locals knew where it was since the story also says that the remnants of the fossa et vallum were still visible.<br>
As is often the case, BTW.<br>
So the site was not hidden but ignored by the archaeological community. That's different. That means looting may have been going on for some time. Apparently it did since the local archaeologist was alerted by rumours concerning numerous finds of coins.<br>
Hopefully now we'll be able to know what happened to the camp, to what campaign it can be linked with and so on. But this takes time. The coins will give us an approximative date and maybe more if, like at Kalkriese, some are found with a particular mark --like Varus' mark-- stamped on them.<br>
As for Kalkriese... Some would love to see there the site of Varus' last stand, and some others disagree. But I suspect both of having ulterior motives on that and they have little to do with ancient history --emphasis on '"ancient"...<br>
Until now, the Varus story has been taken for granted by everybody and I still really wonder why.<br>
To me, it's like reconstructing Napoleon's russian campaign only from the official bulletins of the Grande Armée..<br>
We'd learn that "brigands" set fire to Moscow, after which the Grande Armée "lost many horses" but performed "a successful retreat"..<br>
Yeah, right..<br>
As far as accuracy goes, the Varus story sound a bit like the famous "five o'clock follies" of Vietnam fame...<br>
Fantasyland. The more I read it the more I feel that we don't have half of the story and maybe less than that.<br>
Ever since I discovered John Keegan, I tend to be very skeptical regarding official narratives of campaigns and battles.. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=antoninuslucretius@romanarmytalk>Antoninus Lucretius</A> <IMG HEIGHT=10 WIDTH=10 SRC="http://lucretius.homestead.com/files/Cesar_triste.jpg" BORDER=0> at: 4/8/04 12:14 pm<br></i>
The first bit of news was published by DPA, the German wire service. It was picked up by the AFP bureau in Berlin, translated and put on AFP wires.<br>
It was also picked up by UPI, AP and Reuters, of course.<br>
That's where I saw it. Since I was busy then I only wrote a brief summary of the story and posted it.<br>
Then the whole original DPA story was posted --with a pretty decent translation, I've seen worse, professionnally...<br>
In short, it is still the one and only original DPA story.<br>
Conclusion: we don't know much about this site besides the fact that it's there and that artefacts were found, tentatively attributed to the last years BC.<br>
Apparently, decorated axes were found. It could be dolabrae with decorated blade protections --there's one in the Guttmann collection-- or it could be lictors' axes.. That would be more interesting. I'll wait for the pictures.<br>
That camp was not hidden. I'm pretty sure the locals knew where it was since the story also says that the remnants of the fossa et vallum were still visible.<br>
As is often the case, BTW.<br>
So the site was not hidden but ignored by the archaeological community. That's different. That means looting may have been going on for some time. Apparently it did since the local archaeologist was alerted by rumours concerning numerous finds of coins.<br>
Hopefully now we'll be able to know what happened to the camp, to what campaign it can be linked with and so on. But this takes time. The coins will give us an approximative date and maybe more if, like at Kalkriese, some are found with a particular mark --like Varus' mark-- stamped on them.<br>
As for Kalkriese... Some would love to see there the site of Varus' last stand, and some others disagree. But I suspect both of having ulterior motives on that and they have little to do with ancient history --emphasis on '"ancient"...<br>
Until now, the Varus story has been taken for granted by everybody and I still really wonder why.<br>
To me, it's like reconstructing Napoleon's russian campaign only from the official bulletins of the Grande Armée..<br>
We'd learn that "brigands" set fire to Moscow, after which the Grande Armée "lost many horses" but performed "a successful retreat"..<br>
Yeah, right..<br>
As far as accuracy goes, the Varus story sound a bit like the famous "five o'clock follies" of Vietnam fame...<br>
Fantasyland. The more I read it the more I feel that we don't have half of the story and maybe less than that.<br>
Ever since I discovered John Keegan, I tend to be very skeptical regarding official narratives of campaigns and battles.. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=antoninuslucretius@romanarmytalk>Antoninus Lucretius</A> <IMG HEIGHT=10 WIDTH=10 SRC="http://lucretius.homestead.com/files/Cesar_triste.jpg" BORDER=0> at: 4/8/04 12:14 pm<br></i>
