Roman camp at Hedemünden near Göttingen.

[ghandi]

small world!

Peroni, I was there 2005 with my too. Our camp was next to the "sunken landscape". I was quite busy organizing the "combat display", so we may have missed each other. Did you enjoy the show?

Atrectus, I hope I own most of the books myself! ; ) In fact our district archaeologist could have taken all the books, since he´s diggins on the Hedemünden campsite. You should pay "Seminar für Klassische Archäologie" a visit, for the case you didn´t already.
Anyway, nice to see another enthusiast in Göttingen! We should meet if possible, one day.


cheers

ghandi aka Robert B.

[Robert Vermaat]

Folks, back to topic please, or I'll set up a 'Kalriese-reunion' thread in the events section...

[Atrectus]

small world!

Atrectus, I hope I own most of the books myself! ; ) In fact our district archaeologist could have taken all the books, since he´s diggins on the Hedemünden campsite. You should pay "Seminar für Klassische Archäologie" a visit, for the case you didn´t already.
Anyway, nice to see another enthusiast in Göttingen! We should meet if possible, one day.


cheers

ghandi aka Robert B.

Yep, we should meet. 8)

I'm going to Kalkriese this summer, too. It's a shame I haven't seen the place yet, and now even my father said he was interested. Have you read Iris Kammerer's novels, Der Tribun and Die Schwerter des Tiberius? They take place in the time and area of the Varus battle.

And to get back on topic - any chance the Hedemünden website will be translated into English? And are there still diggings going on?

[ghandi]

To please Valerius I sacrify a roman coin by dumping it into a bog (means posting a picture here!) :lol:



Well, Atrectus, we should use the magical whisper to communicate (PM) for not waking the guardians of the roman forum...


Ok, back to topic:
At the moment there is no plan to translate the page, but I´ll talk to Mr. Grote about this. The diggings are currently in progress, I hope to take part in this year. There are many more interesting finds then published by now, for instance there is broken sword blade, propably a gladius.
There is a small exhibition underway, currently in Northeim, later in Hanover.

This is the official map:
[url:3nrwqzuv]http://www.grote-archaeologie.de/Grafik/Chapter%208/LageplanRoemerlager.jpg[/url]

I - main camp, clearly visible on surface. For the last hundred years believed to be an iron age fortification.

II - Less visible. Believed to be an older camp or an expansion from site I.

III - A concentration of roman finds. No Camp area located by now.

IV - Apparently a larger camp. Reconstructed by remains of roman field works in the S and SE.

V - Terraced area toward a natural spring.

Grey area in the east mark traces of settlements from the late iron age, propably inhabited by germanics prior to roman camp period.

To the south of the camp flows the Werra River. On the bend seemed to have been a ford for southern access to the camp site.


Actually the whole area is uneven and the south edge towards the river is a very steep rocky cliff. Even the camp plateau is of uneven ground, that I wonder how the soldiers managed to errect tents without rolling down the cliff.

The camp area is located south of the Leine River Valley, through which Drusus marched in 9 BC to reach the Elbe River and exactly this is the context it is believed to which belongs the camp. Interesstingly there are more then one camp phases, meaning that the strategical position (still, motorway A7 runs next to it in N-S direction) was visited many times during the roman occupation period of NW-Germany.


ghandi

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

so, could it also be the massing grounds for the Claudian campaign?

M.VIB.M.

[ghandi]

In September, 2006 there happend to be a small event next to the camp area. It was organized by the town of Hedemünden, the district archaeological department and me.
I invited some milites of Legio XXII Primigenia, Bitburg, Germany and some germanic warriors of Chauari. For a hot sunday we presented roman military and germanic handcraft to the stunning audience.

After more then 2000 year a roman soldier and a germanic warrior entered the main camp site again... and started to discuss the benefits of cold beer:


Also have a look at Legio XXII pics:
[url:3rifabda]http://www.milites-bedenses.de/Hed06.htm[/url]

There was a small exhibiton of artifacts in some north german cities at this time. A lager exhibition and some kind of reenactment event is planned for ...you guess...2009.



ghandi

[L C Cinna]

Do we actually know anything about the route Drusus might have taken?

I just checked google earth and the area doesn't seem too populated, lots of fields to the east nowadays. would be interseting to search for the next marching camp. I know... :wink:

Someone mentioned Magdeburg as the possible area where Drusus reached the Elbe. What if he went straight east? the way eastwards is pretty flat ground. So what if he just went straight east and reached the Elbe near Torgau in Sachsen? approx 260km away, so maybe a 30 days march if everything goes well. that would mean 30 camps have to be between the camp near Goettingen and the Elbe.

Just wondered because my girlfriend is from that area and she just showed me pics of excavations in the area of Germanic settlements from the ironage and one from the 3rd century.

[Natuspardo]

Some news update for the Hedemünden camp, translated from Göttinger Tageblatt:

In the vicinity of the Roman camp at Hedemünden the Göttinger Kreisarchäologie (county archeology) has found two bigger, hitherto unknown external camps. Therewith, archeologist Klaus Grote is sure, the Hedemünden camp was more than only a punctual camp, but a proof for a complex Roman presence in the Hedemünden area. At the now found fortified posts on the opposing side of the river Werra and towards the village Mollenfelde in view to the main camp Grote expects many more finds. The road system and both external camps are a fundamental and archeo-historically most important addendum to the discovery of the Roman camp, says Grote.
The archeologists found the outposts while identifying the former marching routes of the Romans by means of a multiplicity of sandal nails. At one of the ways a completely preserved typical legionary weapon was found: a dagger with a length of 29 centimeters, meanwhile restaurated.

[Simplex]

Hi Jens,
"Welt-Online" has also been publishing news about these findings.
(27.April2007/ 15.33 Uhr)
It seems to differ slightly from the article you are referring to.
They are referring to "two smaller camps", "probably outposts of a field camp discovered at hedemünden some years ago" and also to the fact, that the dagger was found alongside a marching-route through the "Kaufunger Wald".
Two newspapers, one press-conference = two different news, albeit only slightly. :wink:

Siggi K.

Well, I wonder why nobody seems to have made that big news out of the findings at Selters-Oberbrechen and Giessen-Neustädter Tor/Oswaldsgarten. Well, not really actually -- give 'em big findings, they give you big news. :wink:

[raeticus]

Dear Siggi K.

Please tell us more about the two finds you mention in your message:

Well, I wonder why nobody seems to have made that big news out of the findings at Selters-Oberbrechen and Giessen-Neustädter Tor/Oswaldsgarten. Well, not really actually -- give 'em big findings, they give you big news.

Andreas

[Simplex]

Hi Andreas,
the first one in Oberbrechen (actually: Limburg-Oberbrechen not Selters-Oberbrechen, my excuses for that) I found first found mentioned here:
http://www.fan-nds.de/inhalt/wir/FANPost_1_2004.pdf
"Googling around" got me this one:
http://www.oberbrechen.de/ ---- > Ortsgeschichte ---- > Alteburg
Zippo, here we have a map and guiding assistance of one
Dr. Sabine Schade-Lindig, Landesamt für Denkmalpflege Hessen.

The second one, in Giessen, was referred to in the:
Giessener Anzeiger (OnLine) on 03.04.2004, a note which I downloaded in August 2005.
http://www.giessener-anzeiger.de/sixcmc.detail.php .......
Reading through it again 2 hours ago and trying to find out the whereabouts again in this course (so that I could publish the appropriate webadress here) my suspicion began to rise.
The fact that I could not find this one again (and other references, too) makes me suspect now that this might have been an "April's Folly" for 2004.
Trying to dig a little deeper I kept searching for Rosco, the firm which built and maintained the shopping mall at this site, but I could not find any reference to Roman finds here.
Ich searched for the Institut für Bauforschung und Dokumentation, Marburg, which also was mentioned in that note as the company in charge of the excavation and dating. Their website was updated last by the end of 2004. No mentioning of roman findings there, too.
Instead:
http://www.giessener-anzeiger.de/sixcms ... 3842&_dpa= 19.10.2005 is mentioning a boat dating from about 790 a.d.
(Further reference to that : http://www.marbuch-verlag.de/archiv/2004/thema49.htm )
No consolation herre, too.
Do I have been duped , or what ?! :? oops: / :roll: / hock: / :x o (Tick the apropriate, please)
I definitely had not much time for reading and researching historical/archeological stuff like I used to in the course of the last 2 years , let alone visiting special libraries like that one at Frankfurt/ Main.
Now that is a situation where you would call the Cavalry for help, wouldn't you ?! :wink: (BTW: where is it ?)

Yours regretfully

Siggi K.

Ahhh: Wot is deepeekaa, mon ?? :?:

[Nerva]

Ah, we live in hope that one day evidence will be found of Roman settlement in Ireland. There have been many finds of coins, pottery and even personal artifacts such as fibula, but not of any structures or encampments. Over the past number of decades there have been a few sensational reports of roman forts being found, most notably that of the Irish times in 1996 claiming that a previously know site had now been declared as Roman in nature.

All this came to nothing as the evidence was tenuous as best. Recent evidence suggests the site is Celtic...or is it? There are quite a number of 'academics'(?) who claim it's all a conspiracy, that there have been finds of Roman sites but they have been covered up by mainstream Irish historians because it would 'spoil' the accepted history of Ireland

Whatever the case may be, we still await 'positive' proof of a Roman presence here

[Crispvs]

Natuspardu,

Thanks very much for the picture of the pugio.

I'm wondering, do you know what type of restoration it has undergone? Also, is there a picture of it in the state in which it was found?

Crispvs

[Natuspardo]

Crispus,
sorry but I don't have more info. I could only refer to the district archeologist who should know everything, Klaus Grote.
Grote homepage

[Crispvs]

Thanks for that. I'll send him a letter.

1 laud point awarded for a new pugio and a very useful link.

) )

Crispvs