Roman camp at Hedemünden near Göttingen.

[Anonymous]

A roman military camp dated first century BC and located near Goettingen (Northern Germany) was unveiled today to the archaological community by local archeologist Klaus Grote.<br>
The location of the site was kept secret until now to protect it against looters.<br>
The camp, on top of a hill, is 350 X 150 meters and there are several other enclosures around. The fossa and vallum are still discernable. Artefacts have been found, such as coins, axes, sickles, speaheads and catapult fragments.<br>
Klaus Grote decided to go dig in there after hearing rumours about a lot of roman coins found in there.

<p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

Antonius,<br>
<br>
Do they then, upon announcing the site as a roman fort, begin digging on it immediately? Do they somehow protect it as a national heritage site? When do they open it to the public? <p>Magnus/Matt<br>
Legio XXX "Ulpia Victrix"<br>
Niagara Falls, Canada</p><i></i>

[Goffredo]

Wow<br>
that is cool news. <p></p><i></i>

[Praefectusclassis]

Interestingly, Goettingen lies on the Lippe, right on the march routes of the Augustan Germanic campaigns! <p>Greets<br>
<br>
Jasper</p><i></i>

[venicone]

is this Dans source then? <p><img src="http://www.ttforumfriends.com/images/forum/co.gif"/><br>
<br>
<br>
<span style="color:red;"><strong>[url=http://pub55.ezboard.com/btalkinghistory" target="top]Talking History Forum[/url]</strong></span></p><i></i>

[aitor iriarte]

Is there any posiblility to be more specific about what are those catapult parts mentioned in the report?!<br>
<br>
Aitor <p></p><i></i>

[Daniel S Peterson]

Yes, this is the one I mentioned a couple of weeks ago. I think I told more than I was supposed to! I guess I better not say more since the site is more 'guarded' than I had imagined.<br>
<br>
The irony is, though, it was discovered by detectorists, and reported to the authorities by a concientious 'collector'. So 'they' already know about it.<br>
<br>
Dan <p></p><i></i>

[ghandi]

Hi there,<br>
actually Göttingen is situated along the Leine River in southern Lower Saxony and not at the Lippe. It is in fact the first roman camp of this sort found in this part of Germany. The river which is next to this archaeological site is the Werra which creates the Weser together with the river Fulda at Hannoversch Münden. Looking at maps of the roman expansion toward north Germany, you will think of Drusus expedition to the Elbe river. It is thought that Drusus crossed the Weser but this site may confirm that he actually crossed the Werra instead. Maybe that for roman geographs the Weser is the same as the Werra. If the thesis with Drusus is right we have a date: 9. BC. In that case Drusus chose to march along the Leine valley and headed east, north of the Harz mountain area and reached the elbe possibly at modern Magdeburg. <br>
This camp can be a "Marschlager", a marching camp. Normally you find very little at such camps (at least in middle and south Germany) but the reason that it was hidden for so long is that the area isn´t much cultivated.<br>
Doubtless the finds will be of createst interest compared to the finds of Haltern, Oberraden and Kalkriese of course. But the most important finds are the coins. When the Drusus thesis is right then we have a clear date and some coins belonging to that year. The Problem with Kalkriese = Battle of Varus (see the discussion by Dan et al.) is that it is known that it was manipulated by romans at least once and so cover a horizon of 9.and 15 AD (with naturally little loss of material at the latter date, since there was no fighting). But at this camp of probably Drusian origin has a thinner "timely cross section". Those finds will fuel the discussion of the dating of Kalkriese and other sites in northern Germany much more!<br>
<br>
ghandi<br>
<p>CHASUARI - Germanic Warriors of 1st ct AD.<br>
www.chasuari.de </p><i></i>

[ghandi]

Ok, here are the official news in german:<br>
<br>
"Römerlager bei Göttingen entdeckt<br>
<br>
Göttingen - Ein riesiges Römerlager aus dem ersten Jahrzehnt vor Christus ist auf einem Hügel an der Werra bei Hedemünden (Niedersachsen) entdeckt worden. Die 350 mal 150 Meter große Hauptanlage ist mit Wall und Graben umgeben.<br>
Fachleuten aus ganz Deutschland wurde der bisher aus Angst vor Raubgräbern geheim gehaltene Ort am Dienstag gezeigt. Die Spezialisten nannten den Fund «eine wissenschaftliche Sensation». Der Kreisarchäologe Klaus Grote präsentierte gut erhaltene Funde aus Eisen, Bronze, Ton und Silber.<br>
<br>
Neben der großen Anlage gibt es noch mehrere kleinere Lager, die näher untersucht werden müssen. Das Hauptlager könnte nach Ansicht von Grote der Versorgung der römischen Legionen auf ihrem Zug nach Norden gedient haben. Dort standen vermutlich Holzhäuser, mit Sicherheit aber Zelte. Darauf weisen mehrere gefundene Zeltheringe hin. Die ausgegrabenen Katapultbolzen, Streitäxte, Stoßlanzen, Sicheln, ein Glockenklöppel oder Münzen lagen zum Teil ganz dicht unter der Oberfläche.<br>
<br>
Durch Mittelsmänner mit Kontakten zu Raubgräbern hatte Grote erfahren, dass auf dem Berg römische Münzen gefunden worden waren. «Elektrisiert» habe er im Winter zusammen mit seinen Mitarbeiten mit Metalldetektoren das Gelände systematisch abgesucht und jedes Metallteil kartiert. Nach der Tauperiode wurden sie sofort fündig. Nur 20 Zentimeter unter der Oberfläche konnte die erste von bisher vier Streitäxten römischer Legionäre geborgen werden. Die eisernen Waffen sind 40 Zentimeter lang und verziert. Insgesamt wurden 250 geortete Objekte ausgegraben. Einige lagen direkt unter dem Laub auf dem Humusboden.<br>
<br>
Am wahrscheinlichsten für die Errichtung der Wehranlagen an der Werra ist nach Ansicht der Fachleute ein Zusammenhang mit den Feldzügen unter Nero Claudius Drusus. Dieser sei mit seinen Legionen von Mainz über die Werrafurt bei Hedemünden in das cheruskische Gebiet nach Osten bis an die Elbe vorgestoßen. (dpa)"<br>
<br>
I try to translate that for anglophones:<br>
<br>
"Göttingen - a huge roman camp from the last decade BC was found on a hill at the Werra river next to Hedemünden (Lower Saxony). Measuring 350 x 150m, the main construction is surrounded by ditches and rampart.<br>
The area, which was kept secret because of the danger illegal diggers [sorry], was shown today to specialist from whole Germany. These specialists called it a "scientific sensation". Archeologist of the district Klaus Grote displayed well conserved finds out of iron, bronze, ceramic and silver.<br>
<br>
Beside the big fort are smaller camps located, still to be excavated. After Grote the main camp was created for logistic support of the roman legions heading north. In that camp were possibly wooden buildings but for sure tent arranged. Prove for this are a number of tent pegs.<br>
The excavated catapult bolt heads, battleaxes [dolabra of course, or did they had a elite unit of axe wielding roman beserkers?], lances, sicles, a bell striker or coins were found partly directly under the surface.<br>
<br>
Grote come to know of the site by contacting "grave robber" [hmm, still not the right word for them] who already dicovered coins on that hill. Alarmed, he and his helpers examined the area with detectors and mapped all finds. After thaw they were succesful immediatly. In only 20cm depth they found the first of four battle axes [>sigh40cm in length and decorated [?]. Altogether 250 located objects were unearthed. Some of them lying directly under leaves on the soil.<br>
<br>
Most possible for the construction of the camp is a relation to the campaigns of Nero Claudius Drusus. He obvioulsy invaded cheruscan country at the ford over the Werra at Hedemünden<br>
and headed eastwards to the Elbe river with his legions from Mainz. "<br>
<br>
I hope my translation is easy to understand, when there are doubts don´t hesitate to ask me!<br>
<br>
ghandi<br>
<br>
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<br>
<p>CHASUARI - Germanic Warriors of 1st ct AD.<br>
www.chasuari.de </p><i></i>

[Praefectusclassis]

Ooops, wrong Göttingen. <p>Greets<br>
<br>
Jasper</p><i></i>

[Chariovalda]

It's not perfect, but kudos to you, Gandhi! I was too darn tired / plain lazy to translate the article (of course, the first thing I did was look up anything connected to the find on Google.de).<br>
<br>
It looks as if this is all we're going to hear about it for now. Darn! <p></p><i></i>

[Robert Vermaat]

Dan, you blabbermouth! You gave away the secret!<br>
<br>
OK, big find, but nothing (as yet at least) which would speak against Kalkriese.<br>
According to [url=http://www.ndr.de/ndr/kultur/wissen/20040210_roemerlager_goettingen.html" target="top]this article by the NDR[/url], only 50 metal objects have been found so far, and the site seems to be dated to the BC period.<br>
Excavations should (already?) be over by the end of April.<br>
<br>
To be continued..<br>
<br>
Valete,<br>
Valerius/Robert <p></p><i></i>

[Chariovalda]

Quote:</em></strong><hr>OK, big find, but nothing (as yet at least) which would speak against Kalkriese. <hr><br>
<br>
Let's keep Kalkriese out of it, OK? Until there is sufficient reason to link the two sites, the camp near Göttingen is interesting enough by itself.<br>
I mean, there's a thread dedicated to the Kalkriese controversy, courtesy of Dan.<br>
<br>
I think the find is great news, another opportunity to expand our knowledge about Roman military activity in Germany and their interaction with the German population. <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

It looks like it can tentatively be linked with the Drusus campaigns.. <p></p><i></i>

[John Maddox Roberts]

Battle axes? Do they mean dolabrae? <p></p><i></i>