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My copy arrived yesterday from Oxbow. They seem<br>
to have plenty in stock, now, as it only took four<br>
days to arrive from placing the order. Though delivery<br>
may be slower for those outside the UK.<br>
<br>
Anyone in the US could try 'David Brown', who are<br>
the sister publishers over there. You never know, it<br>
might work out quicker than from Oxbow.<br>
<br>
The book itself is worth it (even for the price!) and<br>
has many surprises in it. It is a hardback, rather than<br>
a paperback, and even comes shrink-wrapped in<br>
plastic, to keep it clean (though for that price, it's<br>
the least they can do).<br>
<br>
Ambrosius <p></p><i></i>
"Feel the fire in your bones."
I've ordered mine two weeks ago... Still waiting... <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=antoninuslucretius@romanarmytalk>Antoninus Lucretius</A> <IMG HEIGHT=10 WIDTH=10 SRC="http://lucretius.homestead.com/files/Cesar_triste.jpg" BORDER=0> at: 6/12/04 12:13 pm<br></i>
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My copy arrived last week. It is a good job, but not worth its price!<br>
The major items have been discussed elsewhere, OK, but that is not excuse for not including fresh new drawings of them or, at least, for reproducing the old drawings at only post-stamp size!<br>
On my own, there are plenty of late ballista bolt shafts in several sizes and that is enough for me!<br>
<br>
Aitor <p></p><i></i>
It\'s all an accident, an accident of hands. Mine, others, all without mind, from one extreme to another, but neither works nor will ever.
Rolf Steiner
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I agree with Aitor.<br>
£95 is really too much.<br>
<br>
Pictures: too few, too small, too many in b/w.<br>
For that price I was expecting full page and full color pics, with high-res details.<br>
Some documents are reported as pictures, but they are too small: impossible to read.<br>
In addition very few things are new for the public. The greatest part of the relevant infos are already easily available on the web.<br>
<br>
<p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=luca@romanarmytalk>Luca</A> <IMG HEIGHT=10 WIDTH=10 SRC="http://www.romanhideout.com/legiov/Images/lucamain.jpg" BORDER=0> at: 6/18/04 5:46 pm<br></i>
No mail hoods and manicae.<br>
<br>
<p></p><i></i>
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<em>£95 is really too much!</em><br>
<br>
For what and by how much? The economics of the book trade are all smoke and mirrors, and the low prices which everybody expects are often subsidised by big print runs (thus low unit costs) via sweetheart deals with book clubs. No book club deal, no book (or one very expensive book – this is what stymied B&C2 for a long time but we have now got round it by going to a niche publisher). The bean-counters will almost always demand that a book like this is sold at a price that allows for all the overheads and only when the storage costs of the unsold copies begin to mount will it be thought reasonable to flog them off cheaply.<br>
<br>
What would be a reasonable price for a 336-page hardback with 8 sides of full-colour printing? Before you answer that, look at any Ospreys you have on your shelves and work out what they cost! My advice is to turn publishing business practice and 'remainderism' to your advantage: either pay the Impatience Premium and get it now (whilst it's hot), or wait until it is reduced (if it ever is – aye, there's the rub – you have to take a risk that it will be).<br>
<br>
To take an example close to home, the costs of Lorica Segmentata 1 & 2 were 'subsidised' by the fact that virtually nothing was spent on marketing, design, or fees for authors; had the traditional formula of 5 times unit cost been used (which allows for all reasonable overheads) the books would have cost more than double their cover price; as it is, the alternative 3 times unit cost figure was undercut because I <em>wanted</em> to publish the books regardless. That is the nub: publishing minority-interest books is well-nigh vanity publishing, it is <em>not</em> a way to make a living unless you view it as a business (my weaknes is that I don't). I have just bought an aviation book (vol 1 of G.K. Merrill's history of Jasta 5) 56 pages long (including 8 sides of colour, double-sided colour soft cover, some 60 b&w photos) for £25 – that is nearly twice the bangs-per-buck price of the Dura volume, but it is being sold at a viable cost to a market which will snap it up. I could certainly have produced the physical volume for under £10 and probably under £7... but could not have paid the colour artist or any of the repro fees for the photos!<br>
<br>
<em>For that price I was expecting full page and full color pics, with high-res details.</em><br>
<br>
In your dreams! This sort of thing is only possible through <em>huge</em> print runs farmed out to printers in the East. An alternative approach would be to eschew colour printing and have a tie-in website where colour is cheap (although you run the risk of every Tom, Dick, and Harry ripping-off your photos to put in their high school essays; not a concern to those of us who lean towards the Creative Commons approach, but a real danger to a commercial publisher, the key word being 'commercial' – they are not a charity).<br>
<br>
<em>The greatest part of the relevant infos are already easily available on the web.</em><br>
<br>
Not on any part of the web to which I have access ;-)<br>
<br>
<em>No mail hoods and manicae.</em><br>
<br>
I agree - ban 'em completely!<br>
<br>
Mike Bishop <p></p><i></i>
You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of trifles
Blogging, tweeting, and mapping Hadrian\'s Wall... because it\'s there
Alas! Poor Yorick... Mike is right..<br>
As a comparison, the book on the original excavations at Dura<br>
(Roztovseff, I think?), published in France a long time ago by the Institute of Oriental Studies, will sell for the price of a small Mercedes.<br>
That is if you can find a copy... <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=antoninuslucretius@romanarmytalk>Antoninus Lucretius</A> <IMG HEIGHT=10 WIDTH=10 SRC="http://lucretius.homestead.com/files/Cesar_triste.jpg" BORDER=0> at: 6/18/04 1:07 pm<br></i>
Well said Mike - I for one think the Dura book is good value, but then again a friend and I split the cost (I'd have almost certainly bought it anyway).<br>
<br>
BTW when is B&C 2 coming out? <p></p><i></i>
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Hey, hey,<br>
<br>
I understand Mike, I agree with you for something, but not for all.<br>
During these days in Italy has been sold for ONE euro a full color pages book of about 250 pages.<br>
Ok, not militar, not something "new", not research, but only a generic publication about romans. Written by Annamaria Liberati, that is on of the VIPs about roman stuff in Italy.<br>
<br>
For ONE euro is there much more than expected: hundreds of full-color-full-page pics clearly new with splendid colors, great paper: in a word big big quality.<br>
Do you think this was printed in the east? I don't know, but this example shows that "it is possible".<br>
<br>
On the other hand we have also another example of a b/w pics book about roman helms recently issued in Italy sold for too many bucks.<br>
<br>
Back to the book, after so many months of expectations let me say that all my hopes to finally see all the details about the scuta (front and rear), details about nails, rivets, sewings..... NOTHING. In a word: I'm frustrated.<br>
For sure my expectations were wrong, my problem, period. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=luca@romanarmytalk>Luca</A> <IMG HEIGHT=10 WIDTH=10 SRC="http://www.romanhideout.com/legiov/Images/lucamain.jpg" BORDER=0> at: 6/18/04 5:52 pm<br></i>
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<em>For ONE euro is there much more than expected: hundreds of full-color-full-page pics clearly new with splendid colors, great paper: in a word big big quality.<br>
Do you think this was printed in the east? I don't know, but this example shows that "it is possible".</em><br>
<br>
Anything is possible with a subsidy. I don't know the book, but my guess would be that it <em>is</em> subsidised (possibly helped by printing in the East, but not necessarily; Eastern Europe is another possibility). You simply cannot print a 250-page book, sell it for 60p/1€, <em>and</em> make a profit (or even break even), however large the print run (the print run/unit cost curve flattens out when you reach a certain number of copies).<br>
<br>
<em>Back to the book, after so many months of expectations let me say that all my hopes to finally see all the details about the scuta (front and rear), details about nails, rivets, sewings..... NOTHING. In a word: I'm frustrated.<br>
For sure my expectations were wrong, my problem, period.</em><br>
<br>
That, I'm afraid, is a different issue to the matter of cost. Have you tried contacting Simon James to see if the information you need is available? He is readily accessible from his website<br>
<br>
www.le.ac.uk/archaeology/stj/index.html<br>
<br>
and very approachable, but I won't give out his email address (it is there) to spare him from being mercilessly spambotted.<br>
<br>
Mike Bishop <p></p><i></i>
You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of trifles
Blogging, tweeting, and mapping Hadrian\'s Wall... because it\'s there
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This thread is turning interesting (but shouldn't it be placed in 'References and Reviews? )<br>
I have paid more money for far worse books and, after Mike's fascinating insight into the publisher's world, I'll just say on the price that it could have surely been a little cheaper, anyway..<br>
BUT<br>
What everybody expected and are not present at the book are detailed modern surveys of extremely important and unique items like the horse armour and the shields...<br>
PROBABLY<br>
Simon James has mainly intended (as stated in the foreword) to make available all the military items while leaving the door open for deeper future studies and it's just to easy on our part to criticize...<br>
<br>
Aitor <p></p><i></i>
It\'s all an accident, an accident of hands. Mine, others, all without mind, from one extreme to another, but neither works nor will ever.
Rolf Steiner
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'scuse me, but I thought this was the <em><strong>Final</strong></em> Report. <p></p><i></i>
** Vincula/Lucy **
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You are right Mike, it is not a matter of cost (mainly).<br>
The problem is that that is a "catalogue", not an investigation report on one item. Only this could justify more pics and details on one single scutum, as example.<br>
<br>
You know that we are always "hungry" of such kind of details, so when we don't find them ... small frustration.<br>
<br>
:-)<br>
<br>
It is a great catalogue with many interesting stuff.<br>
<p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=luca@romanarmytalk>Luca</A> <IMG HEIGHT=10 WIDTH=10 SRC="http://www.romanhideout.com/legiov/Images/lucamain.jpg" BORDER=0> at: 6/25/04 8:06 pm<br></i>
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Vincula,<br>
And so did I until I started reading it...<br>
<br>
Aitor <p></p><i></i>
It\'s all an accident, an accident of hands. Mine, others, all without mind, from one extreme to another, but neither works nor will ever.
Rolf Steiner
That leather armour Vardulli talked about is a fragment of lamellar limb (??) protection, isn't it?<br>
<p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=antoninuslucretius@romanarmytalk>Antoninus Lucretius</A> <IMG HEIGHT=10 WIDTH=10 SRC="http://lucretius.homestead.com/files/Cesar_triste.jpg" BORDER=0> at: 6/19/04 11:58 am<br></i>
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