"Ceremonial Lance" found at Caerleon dig

[mcbishop]

I can certainly see a resemblance. I will print off your pic and show the directors tomorrow. I am pretty sure that Peter Guest tried to contact Mike Bishop the day that we found said object so he may have e-mail waiting somewhere for him. The identification was not originally made by Peter who I think I remember saying that he wondered what a beneficiarius lance would be doing where it was found. I will post developments again. Thanks.

Well I've checked my various spam traps and there is nothing lurking there. I'm sure he'll find me if he needs me.

Mike Bishop

[Caballo]

Hi y7usk,

Also worth looking at pages 175-177 of Simon James "Excavations at Dura Europos Final Report VII The Arms and Armour", British Museum Press. It shows the shield grips / reinforcing bars found at Dura and also a drawing of how this was fitted on to the shield and "wrapped" around the wood.

Look forward to hearing developments- its a very exciting dig.

Regards

Caballo

[M. CVRIVS ALEXANDER]

Here is the drawing:

[Arahne]

And the video
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/7502805.stm

[caiusbeerquitius]

:lol:
It´s even more clear from the film: Shield reinforcing bar.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

:lol: I just see a blank screen, but I'll believe you!

[D B Campbell]

And the video
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/7502805.stm

BBC News? Oh, dear -- how embarrassing! :oops:

[Caballo]

Strikes me that this highlights the traditional way of identifying a find (dust it down, look it up in a book, take it to a museum to ask an expert ) and the way things may be identified in the future- collaboratively using the internet, with amateurs, re-enactors, and professionals all working together.

And I've just receivced a reply from the beautifully named Seren (meaning star in Welsh if I remember correctly) encouraging just that.

"Dear Mr Browne,

Perhaps you'd like to add your idea to the comments on that page, as CAF is a wiki to which all users can contribute. It is entirely free and open to join. You could also add it in our 'Artefacts' section of the Forum.

If you would like any help with this, please don't hesitate to ask. There is also the 'Help / Getting Started' page which should answer all your basic questions, as well as the user login page itself.

Seren Langley
Assistant Information Officer, Briefing Editor CBA

Council for British Archaeology
St. Mary's House
66 Bootham
York YO30 7BZ
http://www.britarch.ac.uk "

[y7usk]

Apparently Mark Lewis had already worked out that it might be a shield bar and had sent e-mails out on Thursday evening to someone? about it but it was so manic on site today that I never got the chance to ask him who he sent it to. (It was only me that was manic because there were no finds trays left and so I had to process lots quickly to free some up. Pete has now bought more. Hurrah!
Bill Manning was on site today and said "I don't know how to break this to you...." and so I told him we were already prepared for a bit of a disappointment. The thing is he doesn't think its a shield grip either as he says the folded over part is too small and the extended piece is not the right shape. I think he also said it it would have had a bow in it, but as I said it was manic. His preliminary interpretation was an "implement".
I apologise to Mike Bishop. I asked Pete if he had e-mailed him and Pete said no, but whether that was "no, I intended to but... " "or you got it wrong and it was ...... who I e-mailed". I don't know.

[Caballo]

Thanks for the update- and will you keep us informed?

Good luck with the rest of the dig.

Cheers

Caballo

[y7usk]

I'd be pleased to and as noted above the dig blog is a wiki and contributions are welcome.

[Robert Vermaat]

y7usk, please add your real name to your signature. I already sent you a PM about that.

[Caratacus]

I'm going into the museum tomorrow morning, so I'll have a word (if he's in) with Mark then and see what the latest thoughts are. Whatever it is, it's an interesting piece. The remarkable thing (to my eyes) about this dig is that the Roman building remains are so close to the surface - you could literally just dig your heel in and there would be Roman stonework exposed! I would say that in the centre of the dig, it's no more than 6 to 9 inches down. Clearly, this field has not been ploughed!

I haven't searched around here in RAT, but has anyone mentioned the Centurial Stone that came up almost immediately the dig started? It was in almost perfect condition and the lettering was easily read. The warehouse seems to have been constructed by the 1st cohort, as the stone has been inscribed with "PP" at the end (i.e. Primus Pilus). If the centurion (Flavius Rufinus) is the same one who appears on several other stones, he seems to have been promoted, as the other stones (one of them, anyway) shows him as commanding the 3rd cohort! This might suggest some information as to the promotion system within a legion - provided it's the same man, of course.

Caratacus
(Dr Mike Thomas)

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

If it was found in a warehouse, could it not be some sort of tool head?
with organic elements gone...?

[y7usk]

Sorry but I don't know what at PM is or quite how I would do a signiture but I'm Chris Waite.
The Centurial stone is not our Rufinius but is Flavi Rufi so he could be a different guy. We thought he was Rufinius before the whole thing was uncovered. Anyway, I'm shattered so I'm going to bed. Bye.