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Lorica hamata / segmentata
#89
Quote: Couldn't agree less about the economic reasons guys, sorry. Mail was more expensive to make in the first place, and we have interpretations of evidence by the wise showing it was easy to modify spares to fit a seg as a repair. There are also numerous finds of seg with ad hoc repairs and holes that clearly had 'something' in them at some point.
Sure, but my interpretation is that this only applies when you have a fully functional system of logistics in place. Smithies at forts, legions at forts, and maybe a backup sytem if a troop needs repairs along the march. But the point of the 'economics' reasons is the period when the segs seeems to have fallen out of general use (yes, I'm coming to Spain in a moment) was a long period of general upheaval, in which the traditional Roman military was under breaking pressure, and the seeds were sown for a major reorganisation along the whole sytem when times became calmer. It is my opinion that during this period, the backup system failed and the traditional manner in which the Roman military organised its suppies and repairs, changed forever. In a period of military chaos, which large amounts of units no longer concentrated in small areas along the border, but moving just about anywhere, it may have become difficult to find the necessary know-how to repair and make a seg. Yes yes, Spain, in a sec. It may be more expensive to make a mail coat, but it surely takes less expertise. My guess is therefore that mail was more readily available and therefore won out. Guesswork, I know.

Quote:It was also still in use in Spain in the early 4th-C which is implicitly often ignored, so I'm saying it again - it was in use in Spain in the early 4th-C, where there may have not been a need to jump on a horse and dash to stop Johnny Foreigner making yet another incursion in the middle of nowhere.... far away from Spain.
Well, it was mentioned in this discussion, but still, good to say it again. I would not be surprised, btw, if it turns out in future that the seg remained in use in other ares besides Spain.
Like you pointed out, it may be due to Spain being far from the areas of heavy conflict (especially during the 3rd c., I must add) that ensured the survival of this type of armour there.

However, I would be much more interested to know why the segmentata eventuall was dropped in spain, too!

Quote:I'll also ask here, again, if anyone knows the cultural roots of the Spanish legions at this time?
I would venture a guess that they were drawn from the province where they served, as seems to have been the standard recruiting practise at the time.
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
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Messages In This Thread
Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Jona Lendering - 07-05-2008, 03:10 PM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Peroni - 07-05-2008, 04:57 PM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Dan Howard - 07-05-2008, 11:04 PM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Dan Howard - 07-06-2008, 10:31 PM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Dan Howard - 07-07-2008, 08:20 AM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Peroni - 07-07-2008, 09:40 AM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Peroni - 07-07-2008, 11:24 AM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Matthew Amt - 07-08-2008, 04:35 PM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Cipher - 07-08-2008, 04:58 PM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Matthew Amt - 07-09-2008, 12:45 PM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Wander - 07-09-2008, 08:56 PM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Peroni - 07-10-2008, 08:22 AM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Wander - 07-10-2008, 03:53 PM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by arklore70 - 07-10-2008, 09:22 PM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Wander - 07-10-2008, 11:01 PM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Jvrjenivs - 07-11-2008, 07:16 AM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Jvrjenivs - 07-11-2008, 09:05 AM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Peroni - 07-11-2008, 09:14 AM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Jvrjenivs - 07-11-2008, 09:50 AM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Matthew Amt - 07-11-2008, 02:56 PM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by arklore70 - 07-11-2008, 07:07 PM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Matthew Amt - 07-12-2008, 02:32 AM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Dan Howard - 07-12-2008, 11:07 PM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Matthew Amt - 07-13-2008, 02:09 AM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Tarbicus - 07-13-2008, 10:25 AM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Matthew Amt - 07-13-2008, 03:48 PM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Tarbicus - 07-13-2008, 04:13 PM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Dan Howard - 07-13-2008, 11:04 PM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Tarbicus - 07-14-2008, 01:02 PM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Peroni - 07-14-2008, 02:45 PM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Tarbicus - 07-14-2008, 03:19 PM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Caratacus - 07-14-2008, 05:03 PM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Tarbicus - 07-14-2008, 09:52 PM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Magnus - 07-15-2008, 06:43 AM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Tarbicus - 07-15-2008, 09:14 AM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Robert Vermaat - 07-15-2008, 05:47 PM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Caratacus - 07-15-2008, 09:55 PM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Caratacus - 07-15-2008, 10:04 PM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Caratacus - 07-16-2008, 10:43 AM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by D B Campbell - 07-16-2008, 11:44 AM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Sardaukar - 07-16-2008, 02:51 PM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Tarbicus - 07-16-2008, 04:20 PM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Caratacus - 07-16-2008, 10:00 PM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Wander - 07-17-2008, 04:21 AM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Magnus - 07-17-2008, 05:52 AM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Wander - 07-17-2008, 09:15 AM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Caratacus - 07-17-2008, 10:12 AM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Tarbicus - 07-17-2008, 03:39 PM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Matt Lukes - 07-18-2008, 05:15 PM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Matt Lukes - 07-18-2008, 05:24 PM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Caratacus - 07-22-2008, 03:34 PM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Dan Howard - 07-23-2008, 09:59 PM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by mcbishop - 07-24-2008, 07:59 AM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by mcbishop - 07-24-2008, 09:04 AM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Tarbicus - 07-24-2008, 10:16 AM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Tarbicus - 07-24-2008, 11:41 AM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Magnus - 07-25-2008, 05:23 AM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by mcbishop - 07-26-2008, 08:25 AM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by D B Campbell - 07-26-2008, 12:28 PM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Dan Howard - 07-26-2008, 11:14 PM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Dan Howard - 07-26-2008, 11:18 PM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Tarbicus - 07-27-2008, 12:32 AM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Tarbicus - 07-27-2008, 09:25 AM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Magnus - 10-31-2008, 05:28 AM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Dan Howard - 10-31-2008, 09:05 PM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by wulfgar60 - 11-02-2008, 12:25 AM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Dan Howard - 11-02-2008, 11:50 AM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Matthew Amt - 11-02-2008, 07:36 PM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by wulfgar60 - 11-03-2008, 06:51 AM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by wulfgar60 - 11-03-2008, 07:28 AM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Dan Howard - 11-03-2008, 08:41 PM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by wulfgar60 - 11-03-2008, 11:06 PM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Matthew Amt - 11-04-2008, 03:40 AM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by wulfgar60 - 11-04-2008, 06:57 AM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Dan Howard - 11-04-2008, 12:35 PM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by wulfgar60 - 11-04-2008, 03:27 PM
Re: Lorica hamata / segmentata - by Dan Howard - 11-04-2008, 08:49 PM

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