Thureos Color(s)?

[Tydeus]

Hello all; I just joined this forum, but am compelled to ask this quesiton straight off - would anyone have more details of the shield on this Hellenistic funerary slab? Particularly the pattern of the colors? I can barely make it out, but it supposedly has traces of yellow, blue, & red. Are the colors divided longitudinally? Thanks for any help. Dean

[hoplite14gr]

Most reconstructions use white base on Ptolemaic and Italian grave stele.
Blue is a colour favoured by those who succeded the Argeadae royal house (Philip-Alexander) in Macedonia.
Yellow can sometimes be a visual reconstruction of gold.

Kind regards

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

Hello Tydeus,and welcome! Could you please put your real name in your signature?You can do so from your profile.It's a forum rule.
Hmm,i don't see any shield in this stele.I see a man wearing a blue chlamys receiving a glass from a white dressed youth.There is a kind of shade in the man's right,but I don't think this is anything particular.
Khaire
Giannis

[Servio Caro (Javier Sánc]

I also have some questions about thureos, i am planning to do one.

What are the correct dimensions? I have seen Celtic shields that inspired the thureos and they are 1 meter in length and over 50 cm wide. Spines and Celtic bosses were also used in thureos? or they were more like roman auxiliary shields, without spines and with a semi spherical umbo?

I am lost in this theme, so any help is welcome

[Tydeus]

Thanks for your insights - and the "shield" is very hard to make out in the image - I only claim those colors because the photo caption stated they were there :lol:

[abou]

I also have some questions about thureos, i am planning to do one.

What are the correct dimensions? I have seen Celtic shields that inspired the thureos and they are 1 meter in length and over 50 cm wide. Spines and Celtic bosses were also used in thureos? or they were more like roman auxiliary shields, without spines and with a semi spherical umbo?

I am lost in this theme, so any help is welcome

The size of the Hellenistic thureos was not standard. For example, we see a small one on a Sidon stele (the soldier that is wearing chainmail and a red chiton), and then we see some massive ones on terracotta from Asia Minor. I'm sure someone has some images on hand and can show you. I don't know if there were certain trends or if it was preference, but it does not seem as though they fit a certain pattern or were made to specific dimensions depending on the person's body size.

[MeinPanzer]

I also have some questions about thureos, i am planning to do one.

What are the correct dimensions? I have seen Celtic shields that inspired the thureos and they are 1 meter in length and over 50 cm wide. Spines and Celtic bosses were also used in thureos? or they were more like roman auxiliary shields, without spines and with a semi spherical umbo?

I am lost in this theme, so any help is welcome

As Adam has said, the size was not standard- Sekunda has stated that Celtic thureoi seem to have been on average larger than the shields used by Hellenistic troops, and I can think of some examples which are particularly large, but I have not done the research to say with any certainty if this was an actual trend and not just an impressionistic statement.

Hello all; I just joined this forum, but am compelled to ask this quesiton straight off - would anyone have more details of the shield on this Hellenistic funerary slab? Particularly the pattern of the colors? I can barely make it out, but it supposedly has traces of yellow, blue, & red. Are the colors divided longitudinally? Thanks for any help. Dean

This is the painted stele of -atsos; we unfortunately only know the end of his name. Here is a summary description of this stele that I wrote for an article based on Brown, Blanche R., Ptolemaic Paintings and Mosaics and the Alexandrian Style. Archaeological Institute of America, Cambridge: 1957.

A thureos rests against the attendants body, and he holds a spear upright against his shoulder in his left hand. The shield, which reaches from about the deceased’s chin to his ankles, has a large rim; only slight indications of a spine can be discerned, but there are traces of black where the boss was. Three small crescents have been painted on both the top and the bottom of the shield in a triangular pattern, each group having one facing to the respective extremity of the shield and one on either side of the spine facing outwards. The spear reaches from his feet to the top of his head. The cloak of the man is light blue, the rim of the shield green blue, the main surface of the shield yellow, and the crescents bright red. The shade of the deceased’s skin is quite a bit lighter than his attendant’s.

Here is another picture of the stele, this time a colour plate from the late 19th century:

http://antiquemilitaryhistory.com/image ... 20copy.jpg

The colours are somewhat faded and look quite artificial but you can see the bright red crescents much more clearly.

What are the correct dimensions? I have seen Celtic shields that inspired the thureos and they are 1 meter in length and over 50 cm wide. Spines and Celtic bosses were also used in thureos? or they were more like roman auxiliary shields, without spines and with a semi spherical umbo?

Yes, the thureos did always have a spine and sometimes had a boss, too. The shift from spine and barley-corn boss to circular umbo originated in central Europe in the late 2nd c. BC and spread from there. It did not reach the east until quite late- the last century BC at the absolute earliest, and even then it does not seem to have caught on quite like in the Roman west.

[Servio Caro (Javier Sánc]

Thank you very much for your help Ruben and Adam, It will be very useful for me.

Adam, nice hellenistic helmet in your avatar! where did you get it?

regards!

[Tydeus]

Ruben:

Thank you very much; that answers my question completely. Oh, and foolish me, I have a copy of Ancient Warfare Issue 1, Vol 1 - with the excellent article you wrote. I now see that the first illustration bears that very same shield. It was only after you provided the picture and description with the red crescents that I realized it. I also see that the blue edging is interpreted as a metal rim. Appreciate you taking the time for the clarification. v/r, Dean

P.S. I see you're from B.C.; I'm just south of you in Puyallup, WA.

[abou]

Thank you very much for your help Ruben and Adam, It will be very useful for me.

Adam, nice hellenistic helmet in your avatar! where did you get it?

regards!

No problem.

The helmet was forged by Joe of The Lonely Mountain Forge. I like it - especially since it has that wicked horned-horse from an Antiochos coin decorating the temples.

[MeinPanzer]

Ruben:

Thank you very much; that answers my question completely. Oh, and foolish me, I have a copy of Ancient Warfare Issue 1, Vol 1 - with the excellent article you wrote. I now see that the first illustration bears that very same shield. It was only after you provided the picture and description with the red crescents that I realized it. I also see that the blue edging is interpreted as a metal rim. Appreciate you taking the time for the clarification. v/r, Dean

P.S. I see you're from B.C.; I'm just south of you in Puyallup, WA.

I`m glad you liked the article. Regarding the rim, blue is often used in Hellenistic art to depict iron, so I interpreted the blue rim as an iron rim.

I`m at the moment living in Germany but I will be returning to B.C. soon. I`ll be really happy once I get back to the fresh air, the mountains, and the sea .

[Theodosius the Great]

Hello everyone,

I, too, will be making a thureos very soon and was wondering if anyone has any advice on
how to draw an oval on the wood. I plan to use plywood, a celtic boss, hemp canvass, and leather (edging).
The Sidon stele will be my model.

Drawing circles is easy but I'm at loss on how to draw a nice oval.
Any hints would be appreciated.

~Theo

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

Ha. This would probably reqire a drawing. Ovan drawing is very interesting. You need two nails and a thread which is longer than the distance between the nails. Then with a pencil you stretch the thread and moving it around the two nails keeping the thread stretched the oval will be shaped.
Khaire
Giannis

[Theodosius the Great]

That's clever. I understand it.

Thank you, Giannis.

One last question I have before I begin cutting :

What's a good size for thickness ? 1 cm ?



~Theo

[Phalanx300]

Even though this is actually for a game, the shields are Historical, maybe you can get some shield ideas from it:

http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=113007

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8H9w-ga ... annel_page