06-11-2008, 07:56 PM
Hi David
The orders given to Commodus and his Gladiator troops are that they should stand and hold while the rest of the army will move in and close the trap to capture Ballomar the enemy chief. This is understood quite clearly by Verulus (Quayle) who says's "We will stand and hold"! As you point out a lot of the Gladiators actually run away and the Tribune Polybius (Keir) later remarks to both Commodus and Verulus "Ballomar's escaped because some of your Gladiators were cowards!" So that is why they suffer decimation.
From what I remember Commodus orders the destruction of a number of communities who supported the rebellion not just leaders. It is this final inhumane act which makes Livius up to then the ultimate 'company man', finally realise what he has to do to stop Commodus i.e march on Rome and get rid of him.
What then does not make sense is that after seeing even more cruelty by Commodus, the murder of the Germans and Timonides, is his decision to go into Rome on his own to reason once again if not with Commodus then the Senate. However perhaps he does not realise that by now they are completely Commodus' creatures!
Sorry David just defending a hopeless position. :wink: I am fully aware of all it's faults but I saw it when I was six so I just love it warts and all!
Graham.
Quote:One final thought: Looking back at FOTRE, I'm struck by what an odd, inconsistent character Livius is. Early in the movie, he supervises a mass execution of some of Commodus' men (I suppose this is supposed to be a "decimation") for their cowardice in the forest battle against the Germans. Commodus tries to stop it, but he insists that it continue. What the men are supposed to have done that deserved decimation is not really clear-- during the battle, some are seen running away as the Germans attack, but others are fighting hard in the midst of a wild, general melee. So, Commodus comes across as the humane guy, while Livius seems like a brutal martinet. Then later, after Livius puts down the rebellion in the East, he receives a message from Commodus ordering the leaders to be executed, which he then rips up and pronounces that he will march on Rome to overthrow Commodus. But isn't a full-scale rebellion just as bad (or worse) than showing cowardice in battle? It seems to me the writers never really got a fix on who Livius was-- old-school disciplinarian soldier or "enlightened" and compassionate liberal? -- and the movie suffered as a result.
The orders given to Commodus and his Gladiator troops are that they should stand and hold while the rest of the army will move in and close the trap to capture Ballomar the enemy chief. This is understood quite clearly by Verulus (Quayle) who says's "We will stand and hold"! As you point out a lot of the Gladiators actually run away and the Tribune Polybius (Keir) later remarks to both Commodus and Verulus "Ballomar's escaped because some of your Gladiators were cowards!" So that is why they suffer decimation.
From what I remember Commodus orders the destruction of a number of communities who supported the rebellion not just leaders. It is this final inhumane act which makes Livius up to then the ultimate 'company man', finally realise what he has to do to stop Commodus i.e march on Rome and get rid of him.
What then does not make sense is that after seeing even more cruelty by Commodus, the murder of the Germans and Timonides, is his decision to go into Rome on his own to reason once again if not with Commodus then the Senate. However perhaps he does not realise that by now they are completely Commodus' creatures!
Sorry David just defending a hopeless position. :wink: I am fully aware of all it's faults but I saw it when I was six so I just love it warts and all!
Graham.
"Is all that we see or seem but a dream within a dream" Edgar Allan Poe.
"Every brush-stroke is torn from my body" The Rebel, Tony Hancock.
"..I sweated in that damn dirty armor....TWENTY YEARS!', Charlton Heston, The Warlord.
"Every brush-stroke is torn from my body" The Rebel, Tony Hancock.
"..I sweated in that damn dirty armor....TWENTY YEARS!', Charlton Heston, The Warlord.
