The Groningen spiky helmet text in German

[jkaler48]

OK translation software make this passage even more confusing!

The original:
Der Helm ist (ohne Krempe) 13.5 cm hoch, ca. 31.4 cm lang und ca> 19.8 cm briet. Die Dicke des Eisenbleches ist ewa 0.1 cm. Der Oberteil des Helmes, die Helmglocke oder Kalotte ist kaum gedehnthalbkugelformig und nicht, wie von assen gesehen suggeriert wird, aus sechs, sondern, wie schon gesagt, aus sieben teile zusammangestezt (Abb.4) . Es gehort dazu zunachst ein einfacher, durchgehder Querstreifen, der sich nach oben allmahlich verjungt, nach unten facharartig verbreitert.

Here is what I got:
The helmet is (without Krempe) 13,5 cm highly, approx. 31,4 cm long and ca> 19,8 cm roasted. The thickness of the iron sheet metal is ewa 0,1 cm. The upper section of the helmet, the helmet bell or Kalotte is hardly stretch-half ball formig and not, as seen of to assen is suggested, from six, but, as already said, from seven divides zusammangestezt (Abb.4). It going place in addition too nachst more simply, go through-going through that bar, which jungt itself upward all mahlich, downward fachar well-behaved widened.

I t wasn't a lot of help. Anyone from a German speaking country want to give it a try?

[jho]

The helmet (without rim) is 13.5 cm high, approx. 31.4 cam long and approx. 19.8cm broad. The thickness of the iron sheet is approx. 0.1 cm. The upper part of the helmet, the helmet bowl or calotte, is approx. in the form of an elongated hemisphere and does not consist of six parts, as is suggested by its outward appearance, but actually, as has been mentioned, of seven parts (picture no. 4). It includes a simply lateral strip running through the whole helmet which tapers in the upper part and broadens "like a drawer" in the lower part.

[Nieczar]

there's more in elaborate of Van Giffen "Zwei Merkwurdige funde"

...below all describe of the helmet's construction (from Poul Mortimer- thanx )

[garrelt]

Just a question:

Is this post about the helmet which has been found in 1941 ?
Of which the dating was then 5th to 7th century as described in:

Paleohistoria
Acta et commvnicationes institvtia bio-archeaologici vniversitatis Groninganae

Vol III
page 181 to 244
Edited
A.E. van Giffen
1954

or is this an other helmet

[jkaler48]

Just a question:

Is this post about the helmet which has been found in the 1940?
Of which the dating was then early medieval, or is this an other helmet.

The text I have which I can't read most of says 6 July 1941 near K. Hemmers house in Groningen. When it goes into describing the helmet
it goes into that technical jargon that no one now seems to fully understand.

[garrelt]

I have the text and drawing/picture here in front of me.
Partly English, partly German

[Tiberius Clodius Corvinus]

are you talking of this or an similiar helmet? http://www.geocities.com/reginheim/frisianhelmet.jpg

I read the text, which Patryk attached and it seems to me the typical scientific babble we like to use at university to make our work look more important :lol: :roll: ;-) )

to be serious, most of the what the text says in an overly complicated manner are pretty plain facts ... but its nonetheless really hard to translate: would be easier if you had some specific question on the helmet ... then I could possibly be of some use. do you intend to reconstruct it?

[garrelt]

Carsten

I only have a copy of the text and the drawing/picture, black&white, from the 1954 publication.
This is the first time that i see a color picture of that helmet.
A reconstruction of this helmet is on my mind for the last 5 years.
But i didn't found the time for it yet.

Thanks for posting.

[jkaler48]

are you talking of this or an similiar helmet? http://www.geocities.com/reginheim/frisianhelmet.jpg

I read the text, which Patryk attached and it seems to me the typical scientific babble we like to use at university to make our work look more important :lol: :roll: ;-) )

to be serious, most of the what the text says in an overly complicated manner are pretty plain facts ... but its nonetheless really hard to translate: would be easier if you had some specific question on the helmet ... then I could possibly be of some use. do you intend to reconstruct it?

Yes I just need the parts of the article translated that refer to the helmet construction so it can be reconstructed. It looks like several people are interested in the information so they can attempt the reconstruction.
It isn't even the period I reenact but it such a cool helmet - And it looks much easier to make than one that has to be raised from a single sheet of metal. I have made a couple of cheekpieces and reworked a helmet
a little and have just bought a new anvil so would like to give this one a try. I am sure the grandchilden will find it fun to try on!

[Nieczar]

hi

I found 2 pictures of this helmet inside ...and here's translation of the fragment about construction of the helmet (by Maik Flugel - das Podol ...thanx a lot )

...this weekend I started to make the replica of this by old way - pictures I'll try to show tomorrow

[garrelt]

I hope the attached drawing will be of any help.
It is page 233 of the article from 1954.

[Tiberius Clodius Corvinus]

thanks garrelt, much appreciated. Some passage of the text are not understandable without the pictures.

[...] but it such a cool helmet - And it looks much easier to make than one that has to be raised from a single sheet of metal.

of course, may be I'll give it a try, too ... if time allows.

Anyway ... I wonder a bit about the thickness of the helmet. 0,1 cm is pretty thin, even if hammered. nothing more than some layers of kitchen foil,I'd say. :? what kind of weapon would it protect of?

[garrelt]

It is a Spangen helm.
So where the individual plates overlap you will have a thicknes of 2mm.
Worn with an arming cap it will give protection enough.
The spikes will also catch or deflect a weapon.
Bare in mind that the metal plate was made in the ancient way , folding and welding, which is stronger than the modern rolled sheetmetal.

[Tiberius Clodius Corvinus]

true. can you say how thick a modern metall plate (lets say average sheet metal) should be to have the same strength as the ancient one?

[garrelt]

That is hard to say without going into the composition of the sheetmetal used.
I myself prefer a helmet which is made from 2mm thick modern sheetmetal.
Everything under 1.5mm is for me good for display and not for the way we do our fighting/training.

For an impression:
a showfight
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU6SaS-_ ... re=related
and
a funfight
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1rl7Njzh0k
But this belongs more to the Ancient Combat Sports at this forum.

If a helmet is reconstructed i sure would like to see the end result.