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Ancient Scenes Illustration project
#1
Hello
I am collecting data for a new Project: a series of prints each one devoted to a different people/army of Ancient times (this series has the provisional name of Ancient scenes).
Representing the Classical period of Greece I will depict a Hoplite preparing to leave home to go on campaign.
Although I have a lot of data about the appearance of the Hoplite and his arms and armour I am struggling to find the following:
- children clothing of the time (haircuts also);
- The appearance of servants (that went along the hoplite on campaign): (were they usually older or younger man than the hoplite?); were they armed also?
- Furniture and floor of a “typicalâ€
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[url:n6bls2l1]http://ilustro.webs.com/[/url]
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#2
Best person to ask for departing scenes is Suzanne.

But libations were poured on the ground.

Only before the battle there was a ceremony where sacrficial victims were covered with shields and oath to fight to the death was given.

Servants were usually young to withstand the rigors of the campaign but take in account what every household could spare at the time.

Kind regards
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#3
Thanks Stefanos
Allways useful your comments.
And about the equipment of the server: was it normal for him to get some kind of weapon of his own or did he just carry his master's?
Best regards
Visit my Website at
[url:n6bls2l1]http://ilustro.webs.com/[/url]
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#4
Some writers say that the Spartans sometimes armed the helots. Probaly daggers and javelines.

Most probaly equipment was suplied by the household of the hoplite.
Remember though behind palisade or wall a servant with an axe, hatchet or big kitchen knife is very dangerous. Even a big stone hurled downwards from the elevated level of fortifications can be effective.

Kind regards
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#5
Vieira,the servants are usually depicted wearing a chlamys and a petasos cap.They usually carry two spears,either their arms or their master's additional spears.Very often they wear boeotian boots. This is a very typical representation of them in the departure scenes. The woman depicted is some times the wife,some times the mother and some times both. The woman usually poors water or wine in the special pot that the hoplite holds and he poors it to the ground,to honour the gods. Usually this was done whle saying a pray. Children are not so often depicted in vases,but it's more usual in sculptures,i.e. grave stones. Children clothing was identical to the adult ones,though usually they're shown completely naked. Hairstyles...I'm not sure how i can help you in that...Some times the hoplites wear mantle arount their forehead,other than the usual ribon,in order to make the helmet more comfortable. Some times they gather their long hair up,like in the arming scene you'll see in the "gluing the linothorax" thread. Very usual is just having short normal hair,long enough to allow some curles. The same aplies to the servants and children. Women have their hair gathered behind their head and kept by a long ribbon around them. Some times they mourn pulling their peplos over their head or covering partially their face.
As Stefanos said,the Servants could be of any age,according to what the house could afford. Usually they are shown at the same age as the hoplite. Remember that not all servants were slaves. Some times those who could not affird a panoply followed the army as servants. Many times the slaves were not Greek. In these cases they are shown in the "Skythian" style,with trousers and phrygian cap,and often armed with a bow or axes. rarely they carry a pelte.
The whole scene would probably take place in the house or at least in the inner court. Some times shields and other equipment are hunging behind on the wall.We're talled that the arms were hung over the estia so it must have been inside the house. Some other times there is a horse,which means they were outside. I'm sure the scene was typical with every soldier departing for war and it involved both indour and outdoor "good byes". Another typical scene is the one where the father shakes hands with the son. Some scenes show the hoplite taking his shield alone,some show younger servands handing them over and unhunging them from the wall,and some times it's the woman who does this. Some times they get dressed alone and some times with help from others. In the house they must have gotten dressed just for the parade,and then once out of the city they got undressed till they reached enemy territory.
Khaire
Giannis
Giannis K. Hoplite
a.k.a.:Giannis Kadoglou
a.k.a.:Thorax
[Image: -side-1.gif]
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#6
Thanks a lot Stefanos and Giannis!
I have allready started painting the illustration, but certains details were still obscure to me and your comments surely help me a lot: thanks very much.
I will represent a Hoplite in the final stage of arming himself, with a servant waiting in the background and the wife and son of the Hoplite preparing for the ritual (each one accordingly with their age ).
Best regards
PS: In this new series of mine (Ancient Scenes - provisional title) each illustration will depict a typical scene of each of the people/army.
I want to represent a scene with different levels of understanding it, i.e. someone that has a starting level knowledge will enjoy some details or the whole scene and someone with more knowledge about that people/army will recognise certain details and (hopefully) appreciate them.
It is intended to catch the attention of and be appreciate by as many people as possible.
I pretend them to be also a stimulus for further reading about military history (and History in general) and as such, it will be available as prints and (hopefully) will be accompaign with a list of selected bibliography and websites for further reading/researching of that people and army.
Many thanks to you both.
Visit my Website at
[url:n6bls2l1]http://ilustro.webs.com/[/url]
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#7
The servant became a swaggering boastful stock character in plays.Here is a depiction of one, notice he has his master's sword under his arm..
The second shows a relief of such a servant with his master, this time carrying his shield.....I posted these elsewhere on the site, but am including them again for convenience....note both wear the typical lower class dogskin cap (Pilos)
"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)

"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - George C Scott as General George S. Patton
Paul McDonnell-Staff
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#8
Dear JP,

check the enclosed link. link from old RAT I think it'll also provide an answer to your last question about the rituals involving pouring liquids on shields.

Quote:- The appearance of servants (that went along the hoplite on campaign): (were they usually older or younger man than the hoplite?); were they armed also?

Some scenes include a companion, these come in different flavors: sometimes they wear light armour, sometimes just a cloak and a spear. Like the one in the attached image. The absensce of facial hair indicates that the companion is a young man, perhaps an adolescent?
[size=75:wtt9v943]Susanne Arvidsson

I have not spent months gathering Hoplites from the four corners of the earth just to let
some Swedish pancake in a purloined panoply lop their lower limbs off!
- Paul Allen, Thespian
[/size]

[Image: partofE448.jpg]
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#9
This last vase Susanne posted has the most typical scene. As you see the woman is about to poor the liquid in the special pot for the libation,and the servant has the most typical appearencemwith a chlamys,boeotian boots and a petassos hat.
Susanne,in the other thread,in the vase with the labation on the shield...I think she's not about to poor the liquid on the shield. If you see she's holding just a pelike.The libations were not done from this kind of vase,and it was performed by the soldier himself,not by the woman...
Khaire
Giannis
Giannis K. Hoplite
a.k.a.:Giannis Kadoglou
a.k.a.:Thorax
[Image: -side-1.gif]
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#10
You have a valid point, Giannis, but then again the liquids are never visible in paintings where the oinochoe (libation vessel) is seen from the side. Smile

Please correct me, but don't pelikai (sp?) come with two handles?
[size=75:wtt9v943]Susanne Arvidsson

I have not spent months gathering Hoplites from the four corners of the earth just to let
some Swedish pancake in a purloined panoply lop their lower limbs off!
- Paul Allen, Thespian
[/size]

[Image: partofE448.jpg]
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#11
Yes Susanne,you're very correct. The oinochoe is the the vase depicted,and the pelike the one with the two handles. In some cases we see even the liquid being poured down.Oinochoe literally means wine pourer(correctly traslated a libation vessel)
Khaire
Giannis
Giannis K. Hoplite
a.k.a.:Giannis Kadoglou
a.k.a.:Thorax
[Image: -side-1.gif]
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#12
Hello
Thanks to all for your great help.
In my illustrations I will not depict the actual pouring of the liquid, but will include the wife of the hoplite with the vase (oinochoe).
As for the servant I will include the cap on hios head and make him of younger age and carring his master's spear along with some other bagage.
Thanks again.
Best regards
Visit my Website at
[url:n6bls2l1]http://ilustro.webs.com/[/url]
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#13
Hi
When can we expect to see some of these prints?
All the best
Andre P
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#14
A sterling project. Often you will see the wife of the hoplite with the oinochoe and a saucer like vessel this is the phiale. They range from simple ceramic saucers to elaborate bronze/silver/gold bowls depending on the owners wealth. Julia Passamonti of Venetian Cat Studio does a nice black glazed ceramic one. The Benaki Museum has a similar but earlier reproduction for twice the price. Some have raised centres and are called mesompahlos phiale. Just google/images phiale for a huge selection.
Peter Raftos
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#15
Hello
Thank you.
I have alrready determined and started the reseach process the first 12 ilustrations of this project, drawn the initial and final sketches of most of them and started painting some of them.
The Classical Greek ilustration is almost finished and as soon it is completed I will post a sneak preview of it in this forum.
Best regards
Visit my Website at
[url:n6bls2l1]http://ilustro.webs.com/[/url]
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