Roman Archery --Contacts?

[MIR]

I was wondering if anyone here can recommend a sutler who makes both high quality well made and"correct" of course Roman bows and arrows?
I see Grozer out of Hungary makes bows, but not arrows.
Interested in Roman archery accesores as well. Perhaps those who do this as an impression can really help.

[jkaler48]

Here is another:
http://www.sylvanarchery.co.uk/
Another Roman Gear manufacturer has bows/arrows on it's development list but is will be some time before they are done. Those will probably be offered
by one or more of the RAT vendors when available.

[Aurelia]

Thanks for the link! I had understood that finding "correct" Roman archery equipment was somewhat of a challenge because so many "Roman" archers were actually auxilaries, and there isn't one correct style. I'm not sure if this info is right, though.

[Robert]

I just had a look at the link and the arrows shown are not "correct" in the way that they are supported by any evidence. There have been Roman arrows found and Coulson does a good description of arrows and quiver type. A Roman style arrow has parabolic fletch glued and not wound on to the arrowshaft, serving at both ens of the fletch, selfnock and different kinds of points. Early points are tanged trilobate or socketed slender bodkin, later are socketed biblades and trilobate. Many different types occur. I am in the proces of making my own quiver full, but need to learn how to forge the heads first

[sulla felix]

There is an excellent article here on Roman arrows by Caballo.

[Maximio]

You might want to look at this web site

http://www.hectorcoleironwork.com/Arrowheads.html

Hector makes a number of arrow heads which are appropriate for a Roman archer. His Type 12, Type 18 and Vindolanda are all accurate and he also produced a three bar fire cage which is based on finds from the Antonine Wall. You would need to fit these to a spine which you can either make yourself or get from a local supplier.

I made a number of arrow heads a few years back based on drawings and photographs I made in various museums. I have none left for sale, though I may look at getting some more cast. Both sets can be seen at

http://www.flickr.com/photos/16460709@N03/2509026123/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/16460709@N ... 942211313/

As Barry has said check out Caballo's article about the arrow shafts he was able to photograph in the British Museum. Coulston's article on the arrow's from Dura Europa describes the fletchings though both his and Caballo's are finds from hot dry arenas and I still believe that there would most likely be some kind of "whipping" on many arrows of European manufacture. You could also have a go at making one of the "hybrid" arrows of part hard wood and part reed. I had one in my collection but the joint snapped at a show and I haven't yet repaired it.

[Maximio]

Salve Mark,

Don’t be too perturbed by the lack of answers to your question, archery is one of those specialist areas that few of us are particularly knowledgeable or even particularly enthusiastic about. I would at least claim to be enthusiastic though as for knowledge I would consider myself more a dilettante than expert.

I’m answering your PM in the open forum to see if it promotes more discussion

Taking some of your questions out of order then

Arrow head mounting is essentially of two types –
Tanged which is a head that has a long “spikeâ€

[jonwr]

Vale
Thanks for posting that info. Been kind of watching this thread.
Do you have any dimensions for the hard wood shafts?
I use a lot of river cane for arrows and use a 6" fore shaft. Not for the reason that the cane splits but it gives a better FOC weight to the shaft.
I have found that if you taper the cane so it is slightly smaller than the "butt" of the arrow head and bind the shaft tightly the are very few instances in which the shaft splits. Of course I'm not shooting at
armor but have tried on wood planks with good results.
Thanks again for the info.
Jon R.

[Peroni]

not covered in Max's concise reply was the use of reed for the shafts. IIRC reed shafts were common among the finds at Dura Europos.

Tanged arrow heads fit beautifully into reed shafts. :wink:

[Maximio]

Do you have any dimensions for the hard wood shafts?

Coulston mentions a number of wooden stele from the Dura Europa finds particularly in relation to Socketed arrow heads.
One which is for a "composite wood/reed shaft" has a length of 17cm and tapers from 1.1cm down to 0.6mm to accept the socket of the head.
Incidentally he also describes that this example has a dowel 0.5cm long and 0.2cm diameter that acts as a "tang" to permit it to be connected to the reed for the posterior half of the shaft.

I must admit that I feel slightly confused by Coulston's description of this shaft as it certainly implies that it is one of the composite arrow shafts I have referred to previously, however in his next paragraph he talks about the Judean finds in such a manner to imply that such composites were unique to the period of the Jewish Revolts.

Regarding Peroni's point about reed only shafts, I thought I had briefly mentioned them though I suspect my emphasis on the finds from Israel betrays my natural bias to my forebearers ingenuity and so swamped my post. Your point though about Reed being excellent for tanged heads is quite true however one should be careful not to conclude that all reed shafts had tanged heads and vice versa with wood. There is examples of the opposite being the case i.e. wooden shafts with tanged heads and reed with sockets.

To Jon and his wooden plank target - when I first got my current bow I raced out into my garden and set up an old table from my shed to which I fixed a poster of Russel Crowe, great therapy after a sressful day though the relative high power of the bow (65lb) meant a few of the shafts splintered themselves.

[jsantell]

Has anyone done any reconstruction work on bows used by the Roman archers? I would be interested in seeing their finished tackle.

[jonwr]

Maximio
I'm thinking you and I are using different "reeds" for shafting.
Heres what I use. Arundinaria gigantea, it is a variety of bamboo that is indigenous to the US. There is another material that know locally as cane grass which is much like a thick thatching reed .This works as a shaft but definitely needs a fore shaft and nock insert.
I would be interested to hear what you are using.
As to the plank target I'm not saying there were no broken shafts.But enough survived to put them on the plus side. (Using a #55 bow)
Jon R.

[Maximio]

You're a braver man than me Jon, I always use modern pine shafts to shoot at targets. The "authentic" arrows I use to show to the public I have not generally used to shoot with as I was too afraid of the heads becoming damaged.
I did shoot the fire cage (unlit) to see what effect the weight and aerodynamic drag would have on it's range. As one would expect it reduced the range by about 20%
I may have a crack at mounting some modern points onto reed shafts to experiment with their aerodynamic qualities. I'll ask at some of the big garden centres near me for the differing kinds of reed they have.

I better not elaborate too much on the accidental experiment with aerial shots at Carlisle Castle a few years back, suffice to say that no matter how robust the back stop may be, one should always account for the strange deflections that can occur from a large stone wall.

[Robert]

Are there reeds in the European area that are sufficiently sturdy to be made into an arrow? Willow, alder and hazel coppice well, so I would have assumed the use of reed in the European theater would be very scarce. Why bother if you can make your arrows of sturdier wood?

[jonwr]

Maximio
Check out the tomato stakes/canes at the garden center. Out of a couple of doz you can usually get 6 good shafts.
Straighten and cleaned up they work pretty well. Make sure you cut the self nock just above a node.
I have found that modern screw in type target points work quite well. Just glue them into the hollow shaft and wrap.
After that its "Onward and upward"
Robert.
Its fun! If for no other reason :wink:
Jon R.