I.D. of mounted sculptures (Egyptian Museum, Cairo)

[JRSCline]

While visiting the Cairo Egyptian Museum this past weekend, I photographed three intriguing stone sculptures in the Graeco-Roman halls.<br>
<br>
Each stone depicts a mounted man, on horseback in side view, rider turned frontal to viewer, holding a shallow dish behind him, from which a floating snake drinks. The man in one example is apparently armored, with shoulder doublets. In another, he appears to be bearing a spear. In each case, I don't observe the hallmarks of occidental divinities I recognize so I can't ascertain whether they're dedicatory altars (think "VSLM"). I'm not that familiar with Eastern cults.<br>
<br>
The best example contains an inscription in Greek. I'm looking for assistance with the epigraphy if anyone is interested in a careful read.<br>
<br>
Here is the most complete figure (call him "Figure A"):<br>
Photo A1: www.zippyimages.com/files/35552/P4230095.jpg <br>
Photo A2 (detail): www.zippyimages.com/files/35556/P4230096.jpg <br>
<br>
And Figure B:<br>
<br>
Photo B: www.zippyimages.com/files/35558/P4230099.jpg <br>
<br>
And Figure C:<br>
<br>
Photo C: www.zippyimages.com/files/35560/P4230100.jpg <br>
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Anyone recognize this type of graven figure by these images?<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Jenny<br>
<br>
P.S. I used ZippyImages.com for the free hosting. But for some reason, Ezboard is not allowing them to display. Even the links don't display. Cut and paste into your browsers! Sorry. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://b30.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=jrscline>JRSCline</A> at: 4/27/04 11:14 am<br></i>

[Jeroen Pelgrom]

a bit OT but, you have been to the Egyptian museum in Cairo?! WOW!!! A personal dream of mine....<br>
<br>
have you seen king Tut? From what i understand, it must be a great museum. <p>Professionals built the Titanic, amateurs built the ark<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</p><i></i>

[Praefectusclassis]

And of course you now must go and find the Roman soldiers' tombstones that are somewhere in Cairo. The archaeological museum, I think.<br>
[url=http://www.romanarmy.com/Content/Imagebase/imagebase-show.asp?Selectie=4&Naaminvoer=&select1=Ala%20Afrorum&select2=Guard%20infantryman&select3=Cairo&select4=Portrait&veranderdatum=&ID=89" target="top]This[/url] is one of them. <p>Greets<br>
<br>
Jasper</p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://b30.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=jasperoorthuys>Jasper Oorthuys</A> at: 4/26/04 3:51 pm<br></i>

[John Maddox Roberts]

I toured the Cairo Museum some years ago. My brother and I went to the King Tut room an hour before closing and had it practically to ourselves. Earlier in the day it was jammed. You sort of OD on gold in that room, it's so abundant. My most vivid memory is seeing my face reflected in the iron dagger, the earliest surviving iron weapon. <p></p><i></i>

[JRSCline]

Does this answer your question, Jeroen?<br>
<br>
Photo of Jenny and a Heck of a Lot of Gold: www.zippyimages.com/files/35547/P4230143.jpg <br>
<br>
Sometimes you gotta love where the Army can send you!<br>
<br>
Cheers, Jenny <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://b30.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=jrscline>JRSCline</A> at: 4/27/04 11:18 am<br></i>

[Praefectusclassis]

Hi Jen,<br>
Do you have a closeup of the inscription?<br>
As far as I can read it, it says:<br>
By line:<br>
UPE..ASILEOO...GOLS<br>
.AIOYTHEO...AOP<br>
SKAFILADEL.F.PEO<br>
SRSÈRAKAÈOUSKAIÈ..M...AI<br>
.ATEKNATIOG.OU...ÈRON<br>
<br>
I might be wrong! <p>Greets<br>
<br>
Jasper</p><i></i>

[JRSCline]

Forgot the inscription, for those who can decipher Greek:<br>
<br>
Photo A3: www.zippyimages.com/files/35566/P4230098.jpg <br>
<br>
Can someone post a translation, please? Thanks.<br>
<br>
And if anyone has a proper museum catalog for the Egyptian Museum, please look up the numbers as shown in the photos.<br>
<br>
Jasper, if you can supply the name of the museum where that gravestone is, I'll hunt it down. I've got a bead on a couple down in Luxor, late Roman type. Also, next weekend I hit Alexandria and the much better holdings at the Greek and Roman Museum there.<br>
<br>
If any scholars/students have photo requests for projects, let me know and I'll see what I can do.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Jenny <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://b30.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=jrscline>JRSCline</A> at: 4/27/04 11:16 am<br></i>

[Praefectusclassis]

I think the description with the photo said Archaeological museum, but I can't find it on the internet. The military museum, which supposedly is about warfare in Egypt from ancient times till now, might be a candidate. Interesting anyway!<br>
<br>
Inscription:<br>
UPE..ASILEOO...GOLS<br>
.AIOYTHEO.FILOPATO (Philopator?)<br>
OSKAIFILADELFOUPEO (of Philadelpos?)<br>
S..S ÈRAKLÈOUSKAIÈS.M..KAI (something about Herakles?)<br>
.ATEKNATOG.OU...ÈRONI<br>
OEALL<br>
.AI....<br>
<br>
Last lines are very hard to read<br>
Philopator and Philadelphos might indicate a date under the Ptolemies?<br>
<p>Greets<br>
<br>
Jasper</p><i></i>

[Uwe Bahr]

Quote:</em></strong><hr>Sometimes you gotta love where the Army can send you!<hr><br>
<br>
Just like the old Romans (?) said: join the legion and see the world <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://b30.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=uwebahr>Uwe Bahr</A> at: 4/26/04 7:05 pm<br></i>

[JRSCline]

Too true, Uwe! (Of course, most of the time the locations are remote and full of people who don't like you, but what a view!)<br>
<br>
And now the free-hosted photos seem to have disappeared. I may have to send these to you after all, Jas!<br>
<br>
There was no explanatory placard with these, BTW.<br>
<br>
I can always go back another weekend and rent the headphone thingie which "may" have some explanation by number (although I somehow doubt it).<br>
<br>
Looked in my Cairo phonebook for an archaeological museum; of course, nothing (only 10% of anything in Cairo is listed in the yellow pages and of that, 99% is business related, no surprise; oh and the other 99% is in Arabic, haha).<br>
<br>
Anyway, let's keep searching for where the other guy's kept.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Jenny <p></p><i></i>

[aitor iriarte]

There were some Roman sculptures in Cairo Museum, near the exit, basement floor, if I recall well. Among them, the beautiful porphiry bust of a Tetrarchic emperor. Unfortunately, that room was awfully dark and I couldn't take any photos.<br>
Jenny, if you're going to Alexandria, in the Archeoilogical museum there, there is a (natural size?) porphiry statue of a enthroned Tetrarch. Details of his attire and the throne would be highly welcome.<br>
Have you visited the Tetrarchic principia aedes installed in the Luxor tample? Thre are remains of the wall paintings (mostly some heads and shoulders to the high left corner and part of a blue round convex shield on the adjoining wall. Rests of the four Tetrarchs depicted as gods survive inside the apse. I was there in 2000 but I forgot to take a general view of the room, from the side facing the river and showing the apse with its columns and the wall oppolsite to the river (Nile, of course! )<br>
There are some Latin! inscriptions scattered around the Luxor temple, commemorating the Tetrarchs, and Constantine. If you walk to the left and right of the main entrance you can see the foundations of late Roman brick towers and, to the right, an ashlar gate nad, behind it the bases of a tetrapilon with inscriptions...<br>
Don't forget to visit the Coptic Museum in Cairo, there is a bronce eagle perhaps coming from a late standard and a beautiful late Roman helmet. The Coptic area is built inside the late Roman fortress of Babylon, with interesting remains of huge ciruclar towers and one of the churches built ober a Roman gate.<br>
Enjoy Egypt!<br>
<br>
Aitor <p></p><i></i>

[Jeroen Pelgrom]

the picture is indeed unfortunatly gone, but nevermind, know the stuff by memory (i´m even learning to read hieroglyphics! ) <p>Professionals built the Titanic, amateurs built the ark<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</p><i></i>

[JRSCline]

I'll try again later to post them somewhere. I used to have an Honesty account but let that expire when it became for-pay.<br>
<br>
About the Coptic Museum -- I did try to go there, but it's closed for restoration, I was told in broken English. If I understood him correctly, it'll be a couple of years before it opens again. (Did you know that the Egyptian Gov't gives no support to the Coptic Museum? It's entirely privately funded, apparently.)<br>
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I'll look for the Luxor tetrarchic items, whenever I can get down there. It's a bit of a ways from Sinai!<br>
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Anything else to see? LOL Roman-specific, I mean; that narrows it down a bit. Muslim-majority Egyptians tend to forget the Graeco-Roman bit of their history, and positively ignore the Coptic Christian part!<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Jenny <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

Although the inscription on the first rider does seem to suggest (pending a better reading) a possible Ptolemaic date, note the band around his cuirass under the armpits. This is very common in Byzantine representations, but I've never seen it in a Ptolemaic source that I can recall. (It's worn much higher than the Hellenistic-Roman officers' waist-sash.) Doesn't that saddlery look late in date as well? <p></p><i></i>

[Vincula]

Where are you guys seeing the images? They're not coming thru to me. I'm just getting the small red cross which indicates "nothing to see here", zip, nadda.<br>
(That's the three images, by the way ) <p></p><i></i>