Falcata and other early swords with pistol grips vs. Gladius

[Timotheus]

I have always wondered why the pistol grip of the falcata and the greek sword disapeared from use with the roman gladius and in fact among most swords made in Europe.

The one fact that comes to mind really is that a sword with a pistol grip can only be helf one way. This means there is no reason to sharpen the backside of the blade.

On the otherhand the gladius, spatha, and the varius European longswords can be held either way so either edge can be the font blade.

The advantage would be obvious. First I can swing both ways and second when one edge gets blunted in battle I can quickly shift it in hand to the backside and use the now fresh side to keep swinging for full effect.

Any opinions on this as a theory or am I missing something else completely?

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Well, I would tend to agree with you on the versitility of the double edged blade.
As you say, it would be more difficult to use with the falcata type grip.

The gladius could be used to stab, slash, hack, hamstring with more economy of motion due to its grip allowing the sword to be rotated to a variety of angles!

[Matthew Amt]

I would think it's sort of the other way around. A single-edged sword has a grip that can be held only one way to prevent you from swinging the blunt back edge at someone! Not sure I'd call even a falcata grip a "pistol grip", but I guess I see what you're saying. The usual Greek sword was double-edged and had a normal grip that could be held either way.

Vale,

Matthew

[john m roberts]

The falcata grip, with its hooked pommel, makes using the falcata properly less tiring. With a front-heavy blade like the falcata's, swung in its customary overhand slash, the grip tries to slide forward in your hand. With a conventional sword grip, you have to tighten your grasp to prevent this, tiring your hand quickly. With the falcata hilt, the grip can't move so tightening the grasp isn't necessary

[Marcus Mummius]

You can stab better with a gladius than you can with a falcata

[Timotheus]

You can stab better with a gladius than you can with a falcata

Which would have what to do with the grip?

[Marcus Mummius]

You can stab better with a gladius than you can with a falcata

Which would have what to do with the grip?

Nothing much to do with the grip, except for balance perhaps. The falcata grip is quite assymetrical. I wonder if you put a falcata grip on a gladius if it would still be a good stabbing weapon...

A two edged sword, with a regular symetrical grip seems a much more flexible and versatile weapon.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

I would think it's sort of the other way around. A single-edged sword has a grip that can be held only one way to prevent you from swinging the blunt back edge at someone! Not sure I'd call even a falcata grip a "pistol grip", but I guess I see what you're saying. The usual Greek sword was double-edged and had a normal grip that could be held either way.

Vale,

Matthew

I think that is what we were saying Matt.

[Matthew Amt]

Maybe, but Timothy's first post sounded like he was saying the blade form was the result of the grip. "Pistol grip" made me think of a grip set at right angles to the blade! But I know that's not what was meant, it was just a momentary wacky mental image. I'll go back to sleep!

Matthew

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

:lol: I have to admit this came to mind as well!

[john m roberts]

I've seen the falcata-style grip described as an "umbrella handle," which is perhaps a better analogy.

[PhilusEstilius]

Having made a few Falcata types in my time I used to think of the handle as being simply decorative, however apart from the idea of thinking it to be some form of finger protection which I dought for there is not a lot of coverage for that. I would however say that it is the kind of sword where one can loosen their grip pressure and the sword does not fall to the ground, try that with an ordinary type sword handle and one would find that it may well fall.

[Decimus Aurelius Varus]

What about the fact that the Roman military dominated most of the known world. I realize that this may be so obvious that no one is bringing it up... The roman military put into effect on soldiers all using similar equipment, thus eliminating many of the other weapons in use, such as the falcata. It seems as though history pushed towards long and slender swords. The short sword became less popular with the dark ages, and the rennaisance brought the rapier. Maybe its just a pattern of making a weapon more and more simple. Now days all you have to do is push a button. :twisted:

[Timotheus]

What about the fact that the Roman military dominated most of the known world. I realize that this may be so obvious that no one is bringing it up... The roman military put into effect on soldiers all using similar equipment, thus eliminating many of the other weapons in use, such as the falcata. It seems as though history pushed towards long and slender swords. The short sword became less popular with the dark ages, and the rennaisance brought the rapier. Maybe its just a pattern of making a weapon more and more simple. Now days all you have to do is push a button. :twisted:

The individual gear had little to do with the domination of the Roman Army. Consistency of gear, tenacity of will, organisation, logistics, all of these were the reasons Rome dominated.

To suggest that the legions dominated because of the sword they carried makes as much sense as loking at the US Army today and saying it is the most powerful military in the world because its soldiers carry the M16.

[Matthew Amt]

The individual gear had little to do with the domination of the Roman Army. Consistency of gear, tenacity of will, organisation, logistics, all of these were the reasons Rome dominated.

To suggest that the legions dominated because of the sword they carried makes as much sense as loking at the US Army today and saying it is the most powerful military in the world because its soldiers carry the M16.

Bingo! Couldn't agree more. MOST of what we see in ancient military equipment is fashion and style rather than function. In any case, the shapes of swords had been changing back and forth between narrow and wide, and between short and long, ever since the sword first came into use, and it continued to do so until the 19th century. "Simple" comes and goes as well. It's just fashion.

Matthew