Cavalry name

[Parmenion]

Hello !
I suppose you all know a little bit about the wargame Warhammer Battle, of which I'm a player. I've decided to create a Greek Army for this game, but the matter is, I don't know what name I could use for the elite cavalry. I know this type of warriors were not very spread, and I intend to limit them to 1 unit for each army, but however they existed, and I really don't know how to call them. Hippeis seems not very appropriate given that it was usually a class members' name, and that they were mostly hoplites. But for the real elite cavalry ? (not macedonian, greek) I already use "Horsemen" for the non-citizen calavry.
I need your help, dear guys :? ...

Parmenion - ah, and what about their armour ? Quite light, I assume, isn't it ?

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

Hi Parmenion. Welcome in RAT. First of all,can you please add your real name in your signature?It's a forum rule and the mods will ask you to.
Hippeis is not a bad name,and the fact that classical Spartans had a class of hippeis who fought as hoplites doesn't mean that the hippeis in general were fighting mounted. Every city had some hippeis who were usually the aristocracy and the most rich citizens. After all,the word hippeis comes from the word hippos that means horse.
If you still don't like this,the most famous cavalry in Greece was the Thessalian cavalry.And after this,the boeotian cavalry.
Khaire
Giannis

[hoplite14gr]

Cavalry scouts were called "prodromoi"-forerunners. Scouts are kind of elite in all armies.
Macedonian and Hellenistic royal houses had "heteroi" (companions)
Purric heavy horse and Seleukidic catafracts were called "agema" - "those who are led" or "those who lead".

Hope it helps

Kind regards

[Parmenion]

First I'm sorry but I don't manage to add a signature, when I edit my profile it doesn't work... How can I change this ?

Then ok, I think I'm going to keep Hippeis, if it is used also for the noble horsemen. And thank you for "Prodomoi", I will use that for the previously simply named Horsemen (helots or mercenary, at least non-citizen, horsemen).

And what about their equipment ? Even noble Hippeis had light armour, with their shields and spears, didn't they ? And no caparison ?

Parmenion - ah, in fact it works, ok then.

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

The hippeis usually didn't have shields. They probably were not very heavily armed,but as always the case was in early greek armies,it was more a matter of choise. They must have had open helmets such as attic or chalcidean,though early,archaic vases show them with corinthian helms. Their weapons? Often shown with two spears,perhaps multipurpose. They must have had long xiphos. Xenophon speaks "a lot" about good horseman armour,but he wrote for early 4th century and he must have been very efected by his eastern adventures,so what he describes is hypothetical and not representative of the common greek hippeis.
Khaire
Giannis

[hoplite14gr]

When the phalanx started dominating the battle field most Greek cavalry became light with exceptions of Thessalians. Athenians and thebans were the first to reinstate heavy horse.

Most people will tell you that there were no shields but Hereon (Temple of Hera) in Samos depicts horsemen with shields and most heavy horsemen in pottery are describes as "mounted hoplites" but this is very convenient in my opinion.

See this:

[hoplite14gr]

Or this. They coulld be almost "catafract" with Archaic arm and foot armor.

Probaly depicted Kinneas Thessalian mercenary horsemen crushing the Dologae mercenaries of The Phylaidae clan.

[hoplite14gr]

Or this

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

I know Stefane. First of all,the first vase you posted is very interesting.
I had in mind those images of horsemen with (boeotian) shields on their back. We don't usually see them fighting that ways though. And I wonder,were they actually fighting on horseback dressed like hoplites.
But all those bronze statuettes and all grave stelai I can remember don't show them with shields. Can you post any pics of the Heraion you refered to?
Khaire
Giannis

PS.Your second image has not been posted,or at least i can't see it

[hoplite14gr]

This is also interesting.

[hoplite14gr]

Its a big debate but I say again that "mounted hoplites" is too convenient explanation. I will scan pictures of the Hereo of Samos but it will take some time.
Kind regards

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

Take your time. In the meantim,Parmenion can take a look on this site:
http://hoplitikon.com/Greekbattles.htm
Scroll down,near the end there are some excellent depictions of various types of Greek cavalry. The most typical greek one is the one made by Johny Shumate,with the Thebans killing some Thracians during the Peloponnesian war.
Khairete
Giannis

[Parmenion]

Yes, all are very interesting pics, thank you for such a developed answer. I think we can conclude it depended of the century, the region they were from and their richness. Some are quite heavily armoured, some hed just light helmets. I think a light armour would represent well this disparity.

Another question, we sometimes see pics of "hoplite bowmen", or archers with a hoplite armour. I thought that real hoplites scorned shooters (javeliners, bowmen, slingers) and considered their only place was in the phalanx (or on horseback for a few of them). What can you tell me about that ?

Parmenion - do I have to resize my large picture in my signature ?

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

I have wondered about this myself. If you refer to early representations of hoplites with bows,i think they are rare. If you do have seen such,thoufh,they most probably show Paris or someone similar,and with his hoplite armour the artist would want to indicate his high class. Fir later representations,though,things may not be that clear. Some of them may had been ironic,especially if we're talking about 430-420 bc. As we know it was the time that the Athenians had to defend themselves inside their walls,and this was quite a shame both for them and their oponents outside the walls. After all,slowly but steadily,hoplites had to fulfill different and more complicated tasks,like fighting on a ship or fighting in extensive shiege wars. All this pure speculation,but they are some of the possible reasons.
Khaire
Giannis

[hoplite14gr]

Plato wrote against low class trireme oarsmen but they were the backbone of the Athenian power.
Just because someone wrote his prejudises and reached us it doesn't mean that everyone of his conteporaries shared his views or that people did not practiced the exact opposite of what the writer thought correct.

Kind regards