Pilum recreations!!

[Max_]

Has anyone ever used the reproduction pilums that seem to run about 60 dollars? I think the origionals were supposed to bend when they were thrown, does anyone know if the modern ones do this to?
thnx!

[Matthew Amt]

Has anyone ever used the reproduction pilums that seem to run about 60 dollars?

Not sure which ones you mean. Deepeeka's are probably the only mass-produced ones that are anywhere near accurate, but I don't remember what they cost. There are a couple different armorers who can make at least the iron parts for around $60, and those are generally excellent. Is Roman Legion Quartermaster still offering pila?

I think the origionals were supposed to bend when they were thrown, does anyone know if the modern ones do this to?
thnx!

There's a growing debate about the whole bending thing, which I haven't followed very closely. But yeah, I have a couple nice hand-forged pila which have bent when thrown. One actually bent in 2 places in one throw! Two minutes heating each bend to red-hot with the propane torch, 3 or 4 whacks with the hammer, and it was straight again.

Obviously there's a lot of variation with repros, though, and it's not likely that the thicker Indian-made ones are going to bend at all. Since we have to pay for these things, that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Vale,

Matthew

[Magnus]

Hey Max,

Read Matt Amt's site:

www.larp.com/legioxx/

All the questions you're asking....well all the answers are there lol.

Plus there is a massive list of recommended suppliers on it that will show you the gear that most of us buy when not making it ourselves.

[derek forrest]

Mathew has not got the latest stuff. 3-4 years back Peter Connolly was doing the rounds demonstrating that the bendy bit was a fallacy and that the pilum in actual use had actually a very substantial shaft. The Guards new pila are all non bendable and at short range would penetrate like APDS shells!!
The standard commentary now has no reference to bendy bits.

[Magnus]

True, but Matt's site is more than a good start for beginners.

[Marcus Mummius]

Mathew has not got the latest stuff. 3-4 years back Peter Connolly was doing the rounds demonstrating that the bendy bit was a fallacy and that the pilum in actual use had actually a very substantial shaft. The Guards new pila are all non bendable and at short range would penetrate like APDS shells!!
The standard commentary now has no reference to bendy bits.

It really depends on what type of pilum one uses. A vast amount of variation in shank thickness can be observed when you study the originals.

The ones with a slender shank will bend when they hit the ground and the wooden haft sways , causing a lot of levering force on the thin shank.

Our experiments with different kind of pila all had the same result: when a shield was hit the shank penetrated and bend little to not at all, when the pilum struck the ground it bend dramaticaly.

What kind of iron are the shanks of the Guard made of if they are unbendable like you say? Even if they had been carefully heat treated (which I would find surprising, given the fact the fact that they are missile weapons) they would have bend when they hit the ground and the wooden shaft swayed over in force...

I can warmly recomend Matt Lukes pila, they are excellent. Mark Morrow's pila are very good too.

Vale,

[Hibernicus]

The pilum we make cost $35.. materials.

Max: another one of the advantages to joining a club.

Matt: no more RLQM pilum. Our commercial workshop makes stuff for us now... lots easier to keep up with in-house demand.

[DanM]

If you want to make one, melt and cast your own iron, visit backyardmetalcasting.com, however, I don't reccomend that.

[Matthew Amt]

Well, the Romans didn't cast iron, as a rule! Iron is smelted from ore into a mass called a bloom, then hot-hammered at length to remove the slag, and forged into whatever billets were needed. These days, easiest to start with some regular mild steel barstock.

Generally, bronze and brass can be cast, but iron must be forged.

Yeah, I need to update a few bits of the website! I've always been just a tad leery of Connolly's conclusions about the pilum, since ours seemed to be about the right thickness and they certainly bend. But mine went through a scutum and split the 2x4 that it was leaning against--THEN it bent! Had to be a matter of variation, like so much else. And isn't there an original reference to pila bending? Hmmm.....

Matthew

[derek forrest]

I have no doubt that if I threw it hard enough it would bend a bit but I was really wanting to contrast that with our old ones which were willowy in the extreme and would bend if the wind blew too hard!!

[Matt Lukes]

Yup mine bend too, and I specifically spend a lot of time forging them to actual dimensions. And there are a number of bent artifacts- bent just as I found mine did when simply sticking in the ground...