questions on making helmets

[kevotron]

How does one get started making helmets? For a guy that has problems with closure loops, I thought I would try something a little easier (joke!). I know about the concepts of raising and dishing, but I work at a manufacturing facility in Detroit and have Lathes, Bridgeports, Mazaks and more all at my disposal. I know about helmet spinning, how does that work, has anyone ever done it? Will I wind up lopping off a hand? I would like to learn how to make helmets, they are fascinating to me.

[Shinyhead]

Get some steel and get making.

There are quite a few websites out there that can give you an overview of how its done.

This is a very good starting point.

[url:1oceqc8h]http://www.armourarchive.org/index.html[/url]

I have my legionaire helmet about 1/2 done and although a lot of work, not nearly as bad as I thought it was going to be.

[Matthew Amt]

Hoo, helmets are a challenge! Roman helmets are a particular problem since they were made in one piece, so you can't simply rivet convenient small pieces together like for some other cultures. You either have to learn how to actually make the whole thing in one piece, or make it in several pieces that fit together precisely enough to be welded, then grind down the welds on the outside so that it LOOKS like one piece.

The Armour Archive is definitely a good place to dig through! Here's a couple other links:

http://www.anvilfire.com/21centbs/armor ... _index.htm

http://www.ageofarmour.com/education/index.html

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/armrhnts.html
http://www.larp.com/legioxx/helmets.html
http://www.larp.com/legioxx/spunhlm.html

Basically what you're going to need most is EXPERIENCE, or at least a really heavy mix of natural talent and luck. I have seen the latter happen, but if it doesn't happen for you, start scrounging trash piles and dumpsters for old steel shelves and such, and start pounding. Learn how to dish and raise on free scrap before spending a fortune on good brass, that's for sure!

Spinning requires a big powerful lathe, of course, though it's possible that the Roman ones were horizontal, like a big potter's wheel. And only copper alloy was used for spinning in ancient times, not iron (too much slag, etc.). So again you'll want to practice and learn with scrap steel before trying brass.

Of course, Roman isn't the only game in town! Try the bottom half of this page for more good links to other medieval helmet-making sites, also applicable to Late Roman ones.

http://www.larp.com/midgard/armor.html

Or you can go farther back in time! Here are some Bronze Age helmets that I made:

http://www.larp.com/hoplite/BAarmor.html#helmets

Obviously the boar tusk helmet is a tad unorthodox (unless you're a Mycenaean!), but you can see that other types can be made in halves and riveted together.

Make helmets!! Just be aware that they aren't really "beginner" projects. That's why you should pound up some scrap metal for a while. Heck, you might even want to look around for metalworking classes at the local community college, etc., you can learn a TON from something like that! Local blacksmith guilds, too, or if you're really lucky there might even be a real armorer in your area who would be willing to teach you some tricks.

Good luck!

Matthew

[Shinyhead]

Yeah, take your time and work up to it.

Of course I don't take my own advice. My first project was finger gauntlets, followed by the helmet.

Did some spaulders after I started the helmet and was like.. dang, those are easy. :lol:

[jkaler48]

Here is a blacksmithing /armoring instructor in Ontario who offers courses.
http://www.thak.ca/

[kevotron]

I have been doing some raising practice in my garage. I dont know that my hammer is really good for raising or not, I just took a regular hammer with a round head and ground it to a square head. So I can just whack away on my sheeet metal scrap and that will be good raising practice? So they just grabbed a big sheet of brass and hammered that one whole piece into a single helmet? Doesnt sound liek a whole lot of room for error!

Does anyone have any experience making helmets with a welder? It sounds like you would have to be a pretty accomplished welder. I do have access to an oxy acetylene rig as well.

As far as spinning, I have access to an industrial strength lathe. But I would be nervous given my lack of expertise. I can just envision fingers laying on the floor!

[Shinyhead]

Is this helmet for reenacting or combat.
If its just reenactment then welding isn't too bad. I am a gorilla welder and a die grinder can be your best friend for clean up.

As far as general info [url:1j0q6ylt]http://www.arador.com/construction/index.html[/url] is a good starting point. Read and study so you dont waste metal.

Look around at hammer designs, I believe a raising hammer will typically be wider and rounded (like a round faced chisel, but much rounder) to spread the force in a useful way. Learn some of the theory and hammer, stake selection and the like will come much easier.

[kevotron]

Shinyhead\\n[quote]Is this helmet for reenacting or combat.
If its just reenactment then welding isn't too bad. I am a gorilla welder and a die grinder can be your best friend for clean up.

Can you tell me what you mean by gorilla welder? Also, when talking welding, are we just talking about brazing? If so, can I make a helmet using a brazing torch as opposed to having to get access to the oxy acetylene setup?

[Shinyhead]

A gorilla welder like me has very little finesse. I glue metal together with hot melty blobs. hence the need for the die grinder.

I am just using a mig welder on mild steel. No gas, so lots of spatter to clean up. :evil:

I am not the one to ask about brazing, have not done much of it, but I am sure someone here or on the armor archive can help you.

[Matthew Amt]

Brazing is basically what you would do to pieces of brass, but if you're using steel it would have to be welded. (Brazing implies a copper alloy for the metal that gets melted to make the joint, so that would leave very visible yellowish areas on steel!)

Yes, original helmets were hammered from a single piece of metal. It could have been more of a plate of varying thickness, rather than a sheet as we know it, since any metal back then would have been hammered from an ingot or bloom. With spinning, yes, they'd basically start with a piece of sheet. Either way, they had a lot of experience in starting with the right sized blank and ending up with what they wanted.

And yes, I'd say fear is a good and reasonble thing around a large lathe! For a brass helmet, you'll have to anneal frequently. But if you can spin your dome with a flat or nearly flat brim 3 or 4 inches wide, all you have to do is trim off what you don't need and your helmet is nearly done! You can squeeze the sides in some to make it more oval shape and fit better on your head (as many spun helmets were), but the popular Nijmegen Coolus type G was 8-1/2" in diameter and still circular. Big helmet!

Vale,

Matthew

[kevotron]

my brother has an oxy acetylene setup, but keeps saying "its not a welder its a torch for cutting metal." But if its oxyacetylene, and its hot enough to cut metal, woudlnt it then be hot enough to weld? Anyone have two cents on this? I dint know there was a difference between a welder and a torch

[Marcus Mummius]

Matt, I absolutely love your bronze age stuff! One day... :roll:

[Matthew Amt]

my brother has an oxy acetylene setup, but keeps saying "its not a welder its a torch for cutting metal." But if its oxyacetylene, and its hot enough to cut metal, woudlnt it then be hot enough to weld? Anyone have two cents on this? I dint know there was a difference between a welder and a torch

It might be mainly the difference in the nozzles or tips. Same gas and hoses, etc., but if you focus the flame in different ways it does different things.

Jef, come over to the Dark Side, muahahahahaaaaa.....

Matthew

[Terran Stewart]

Welding can *certainly* be done with an Oxy-Acetylene set up. It tends to be thought of as "old-fashioned" and can sometimes be ignored as a possible technique. As Matt points out, one needs the proper tips, filler rods and pressure levels. One of the advantages of this this method is that it's MUCH more controllable than MIG or TIG welding (for example). Also, there is almost no splatter, so clean up is easier. It *does* take time, patience and practice to do this properly. Especially puddle control. Safety is a must as the temperatures are extremely hot, and it's all to easy (when new to it) to dip the flame too far into the puddle and experience a white hot light show right in your face. There are many advantages to this type of welding for your purposes, though it's imperative to receive some instruction. If there is a local community College nearby, it would be well worth your time to take one of their welding and/ or metal art classes. In most cases it'll cost less than $100 for enrollment and course fees.