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Roman Canteen
#1
I have in my hands an amazing roman canteen replica<br>
<br>
www.romanhideout.com/Revi...nteen4.jpg<br>
<br>
My problem is to be able to find any news about the original. Which private collection? Which museum?<br>
If any of you can help me.......<br>
<p></p><i></i>
Luca Bonacina
Provincia Cisalpina - Mediolanum
www.cisalpina.net
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#2
A beautiful item indeed. It looks like canteen shapes have altered little since Roman times. <p></p><i></i>
aka: Julio Peña
Quote:"audaces Fortuna iuvat"
- shouted by Turnus in Virgil\'s Aeneid in book X just before he is utterly destroyed by Aeneas\' Trojans.
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#3
I think it is based on the one from Rainau-Buch:<br>
<br>
www.rainau.de/brunnenschatzbuch.html<br>
<br>
now in Aalen Limesmuseum - the shape of the iron section looks wrong though, as it should be cylindrical with flat, not domed, sides (but that might just be an optical illusion on the replica).<br>
<br>
For another reconstruction see:<br>
<br>
home.t-online.de/home/BEf...vicus4.htm<br>
<br>
Mike Bishop <p></p><i></i>
You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of trifles

Blogging, tweeting, and mapping Hadrian\'s Wall... because it\'s there
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#4
Mmm, I see. It is probably the same original used by Deepeeka. It is not relly flat, from the image is visible from the light effect that the side is a bit domed.<br>
<br>
Mike, thanks for the info! <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=luca@romanarmytalk>Luca</A> <IMG HEIGHT=10 WIDTH=10 SRC="http://www.romanhideout.com/legiov/Images/lucamain.jpg" BORDER=0> at: 11/26/03 9:49 am<br></i>
Luca Bonacina
Provincia Cisalpina - Mediolanum
www.cisalpina.net
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#5
there are a few originals about<br>
<br>
here's one I saw in Trier<br>
<br>
canteen<br>
<br>
and a poor photo of one in Frankfurt<br>
<br>
canteen 2<br>
<br>
and one from Leiden<br>
<br>
canteen 3 <p><img src="http://homepage.ntlworld.com/mark.martin/forum/mark.gif
" width="100" height="100" align="right">
</p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=vardulli>vardulli</A> at: 11/28/03 6:21 pm<br></i>
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#6
Guys,<br>
although I am largely responsible for the deepeeka replica, there is really no good evidence that this object is actually a piece of Roman military equipment. In fact, the most probable function was a container for body oil. I say this for the following reasons:<br>
1.They are found on civilian as well as military sites.<br>
2.The elaborate suspension chain is reminescent of other Roman bath/toiletry objects such as stirgils, all attached together for transport to the baths.<br>
3. some of these are far too elaborate to suggest a simple water flask (fancy decorated weapons and armor yes, water vessels, probably not.<br>
4. Some of these definately had locking caps, there is really no other precedent for this in military water bottles, but we know that some bath oils in the ancient world were very expensive.<br>
5. There is no pictorial representation in a Roman military context. The only object suggestive of a water vessel among the impedimenta packs in the famous marching scene on Trajan's columnt is the 'net bag'. This suggests a ceramic vessel inside, with the net providing insulation from breakage, or an organic membrane water vessel made from an animal organ, held in a net as strapping would otherwise puncture the membrane and cause it to leak. The shape on trajan's column is very reminescent of the traditional Spanish 'bota' beverage container. There are round ceramic fluid vessels that may be canteens, but they may also be oil flasks.<br>
<br>
It is possible of course, the the same flask could serve both purposes.<br>
<br>
Dan<br>
<br>
Dan<br>
6. <p></p><i></i>
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#7
if you look closely you can just make out a bit of decoration on the front of the Trier canteen-- its a bit unclear [somewhere I have some sketches, which I'll try to find]<br>
<br>
but I think [if IIRC] they look like grapes and leaves<br>
<br>
canteen-trier <p><img src="http://homepage.ntlworld.com/mark.martin/forum/mark.gif
" width="100" height="100" align="right">
</p><i></i>
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#8
If it's decoration you want, a series of mould fragments were found in the phase II fort at Castleford and these were evidently designed to produce enamel-inlaid copper-alloy flasks (up to twenty of them) of a similar type to one found at Pinguente.<br>
<br>
These are published in<br>
<br>
Cool, H.E.M. and Philo, C. 1998: <em>Roman Castleford Excavations 1974–85. Volume I: The Small Finds</em>, Yorkshire Archaeology 4, Wakefield, 203–22<br>
<br>
Mike Bishop <p></p><i></i>
You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of trifles

Blogging, tweeting, and mapping Hadrian\'s Wall... because it\'s there
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#9
Actually the canteen shown in the picture is a amalgan (a look a like) of the canteen found in Pompeii (SAP 11137) in 1955, for literature see Homo Faber p. 180 Catalog Museo Nazionale Napoli. I saw the original there. The original however is not flat but furved and has bronze fittings with lineair decoration.<br>
<br>
Mr Feldon has however a very fine reconstruction of the Leiden canteen.<br>
<br>
Arpvar <p></p><i></i>
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#10
I have a 'gut feeling' that these things are way too over engineered and expensive to produce to be soldiers canteens (as well as too small).<br>
<br>
I'm after making a speculative waterskin (no evidence as far as I know). I might need to find a Medieval example if there are no Roman ones.<br>
<br>
Will it involve pig's bladder?<br>
<br>
I'm entering unknown territory here. <p>Paul Elliott<br>
<br>
<strong>Heroes of Delphi</strong> - Classical Greece gone D20<br>
<strong>Zenobia</strong> - Fantasy RPG in the Eastern Roman Empire<br>
<strong>Warlords of Alexander</strong> - Kingdoms in conflict for the ruins of Alexander's Empire<br>
<br>
www.geocities.com/mithrapolis/games.html</p><i></i>
~ Paul Elliott

The Last Legionary
This book details the lives of Late Roman legionaries garrisoned in Britain in 400AD. It covers everything from battle to rations, camp duties to clothing.
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#11
my sketch of one from trier<br>
<br>
<img src="http://homepage.ntlworld.com/mark.martin/forum/flask.gif" style="border:0;"/> <p><img src="http://homepage.ntlworld.com/mark.martin/forum/mark.gif
" width="100" height="100" align="right">
</p><i></i>
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#12
While visiting Khersonesos, (Sebastopol) I saw a lovely ceramic canteen dated to 300+ BC. It looked almost like a 1860 ACW canteen. I have a photo. I wonder if they might not have had something similar in the Roman period, which has never been identified or was just lumped with the pottery pieces..... <p>"Just before class started, I looked in the big book where all the world's history is written, and it said...." Neil J. Hackett, PhD ancient history, professor OSU, 1987</p><i></i>
Caius Fabius Maior
Charles Foxtrot
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