Wearing a Falcata with Cuirass

[Chris B]

Does anyone know how a hoplite secured the falcata over a muscled cuirass. I already have the scabbard and baldric, but there isn't a belt like with the Lorica Segmentata to keep the scabbard from pulling up as you draw the sword.

I was thinking of using a small rope/cord or a 1/2" small leather belt to run just under the cuirass passing over the tongue pteryges, attached to the rings where the baldric is attached to the scabbard in order to keep it down. I am assuming there is something there, but don't see anything obvious in pictures of reenactors wearing this set-up.

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

There is indeed something you can't see unless you actually wear the thing on. The baldric has to be very short,so the scabard actually reaches high under your arm. The hilt should reach somewhere around your chest. So in the press of the phalanx fighting all you have to do is press tight with your elbow the scabard and pass your hand under your shield to reach the hilt. In roman swords the scabard starts from your waist and lays on your thigh. This is not the case with greek swords. Careful not make the baldric that short that cannot be easily worn with the cuirass on.
Did you make the scabard and baldric yourself?
Khaire
Giannis

[Chris B]

Yes I did. When the kit is finished, I will have made the crest box and crest for the helm, cuirass, greaves, subarmour, chiton, scabbard, baldric, and my wife's peplos.

Thanks for the response. That makes absolute sense and seems simple now that you told me. I will fix it to sit on the body properly.

[ouragos]

see here

[url:dz4mhned]http://www.4hoplites.com/index.htm[/url]

Sword is drawn in this image but it gives you an idea of height.

[Chris B]

Thanks. A little more clarification.

1) Is it certain that there was no buckle on the baldric?
2) Does the baldric attach to only the top two rings of the scabbard if using a scabbard with four rings or does it attach to the back two and the facing top ring like a Roman scabbard.
3) Along lines with the last question, should it hang at an angle slightly canted forward to the front of the body or does it hand straight up and down under the armpit?

I am making it tonight or tomorrow to replace the one I have if the buckle is a no go. I have an adjustable baldric now that attached to the front ring and both the back side rings. It is a 3/4" plain buckle and everything ties to the scabbard so that there is no stitching. If a buckle is acceptable, I will just add a few more holes to bring it up higher. If the buckle isn't accurate, I will just cut and die a new one.

I also have one last question a bit off topic for this thread. What would a hoplite have by way of satchel or pouch for carrying anything with them? Is there anything? Would there be something like that for a woman to carry while wearing a peplos? I ask because I plan on wearing this at some point and would like somewhere to hide car keys, money, etc. I was hoping for a picture or reference so I could make one. Thanks.

[hoplite14gr]

There are many types and sizes of items described as buckles in Museums,
To my knowledge no buckles are on sword stripes on art but that does not mean they did not existed.

My wife made my bauldric for my archaic sword folding linen.
I have 8 layers-no bauldric and it is very durable.

Kind regards

[Gaivs Antonivs Satvrninvs]

Good questions, Chris. I'm wondering about the hang of the scabbard myself. I made mine with only the upper rings and it hangs vertically but I'm beginning to think it should hang more slanted. The pics I've seen aren't too clear and re-enactors seem to show it either way. I think it would be more comfortable with a little slant but I'd have to add another lower suspension point.
(BTW-Great job on the greaves.)

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

No buckles on swords ever ever in art,either in vases or sculptures. There were swords with two rings(both from one side) and with four rings,the latter more justified. The sword should hung in an angle.
This must be pretty much straight forward
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o118 ... C02727.jpg
You must have noticed that most often the baldric is double(like mine). This way,you cross the thinner stripes from either side of the scabard and you tied them again in the outer ring.
Hope you understand what I mean.
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o118 ... C02710.jpg
Khaire
Giannis

[Gaivs Antonivs Satvrninvs]

Thanks, Giannis. I guess the same goes for the falcata then ?

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

Yes,exactly the same. Do a search in the greek section here. There is a thread with exactly the same theme,or was it generally about kopis scabards. I have posted plenty of photos there,both of the xiphos and the kopis.
Khaire
Giannis

[Chris B]

I should have just resurrected the old thread. I started it and forgot about it.

I ask about the buckles again because I initially made my baldric with a buckle since you mentioned buckles in the other thread. On closer look, I think you were using the word buckle in lieu of ring. I have seen a similiar suspension as yours on Matt Amt's page with his xiphos. I think I can make out generally how yours was tied from the pictures and explanation.

Feeling a little sheepish. :oops: I cannot believe I totally forgot about the other thread. I usually search all the posts before starting a thread, but got ahead of myself on this one.

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

Yap,the other thread had the exact same participants,too :lol:
If it was me that was using the word buckle in the other thread, then it certainly was a mistake and I apologize :oops:
Rings is a certainty. The whole thing must have been similar to the roman rings,but the baldric was using all of them ans was tied differently. Alternatively,you can use only rings without the brass stripes,provided you will find a way to attach the rings on either side of the scabard.
Khaire
Giannis

PS, Needless to say,pics are always welcome!

[Chris B]

I did because I made it about 1 1/2 years ago before I rose to the challenge of any type of metal work. I basically used leather strips that pass underneath the leather that covers the entire scabbard. If you can imagine replacing the brass strips with leather ones that are the exact same width running under the leather instead of over it.

On a side note, I am finishing the right greave tonight. It is polished and ready for its liner and trim. I will get pics up within the next couple of days. I am not really overly happy with them, but they will do for now.

They fit. They look decent and wrap the entire leg. They are snug for the most part. They curve to the knee even if they do not look like the really nice ones seen in museums. They are tons better than anything off the shelf. It is what it is.

I think it is time I focussed on other pursuits for a while if you know what I mean. Apparently I am a time-"woman of ill repute" according to Matthew Amt's sister. I have other later century's kits to clean up still. Just small details that bug me. Thanks for the help. I'll post a pic in the appropriate section with the entire kit when done.

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

Hey,I think I have seen you scabard. Have you posted it in RAT before? A dark brown one,and it had more strips under the leather lower in its length. I think it was in the "Show your greek impression" thread.

[Chris B]

No. I have never shown it before here. I don't even have a picture of it yet. It is solid black leather. I am doing my Greek kit for the city state of Corinth. I am using black, red, and white for the colors except the light blue chiton.