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Quote:That's correct what Byron says David, the walls of these camps were created from the spoil of the ditch.
Interesting detail: it seems that not all temporary camps followed this supposed "rule". Some of them had their ramparts created by scraping up debris from either side of the rampart (Rey Cross shows evidence of this) or by stripping the turf interior and piling it up to form the rampart (this seems to have been the case at Haltwhistle Burn). So there wouldn't have been much of a ditch in evidence.
As in almost every other area of Roman research, it seems that the truth is not quite as straightforward as we like to think! 
Quote:With the Clavicula type gate one has to look at it from the inside to understand it, you have the gate infront of you then the left wall comes inwards and swings into an arc. This way should an enemy try to enter the gate he has to turn to his left to get in, this of course gives you the advantage where you have him on his right flank. Then there is the Titulus gate where there is a short wall placed across the entrance on the outside of the gate just beyond the outer ditch line, here again the enemy has to present his left or right flank to you if he want's to get in.
And, just for completeness, there's the so-called "Stracathro" type, first identified at Dalginross (Perthshire) but named after the type-site of Stracathro. This type is only known in Scotland and is thought to be Agricolan.
The Stracathro gateway includes an internal clavicular rampart (no ditch) and an external clavicular ditch + rampart, swinging out in the opposite direction. In addition, there is a straight spur of ditch-and-rampart, projecting outwards at an angle from the opposite side of the gateway! This has the effect of channelling access even more severely.
And if you're suitably confused by my inadequate description ( ), here's a picture ...
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Well, however you go about it, it's a heckuva lot of work!
M. Demetrius Abicio
(David Wills)
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I was trying to give a reply to the question asked by David, in order to give a general sort of view about camps and how the gates function. I am very aware there are those that do not have ditches, however I do find the one you have shown to be interesting. I think the real truth is Duncan that both you and I have the greater privilage than other RATer's, for we are able without too much trouble to be able to go walk in these places.
Brian Stobbs
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I have yet to get a knowlegeable reply from locals when I ask about Stracathro....I'll see it one day!
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
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Byron Angel
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Quote:I have yet to get a knowlegeable reply from locals when I ask about Stracathro....I'll see it one day!
No you won't, Byron. It only appears as a crop-mark! 
Here's a photo I found, showing Stracathro school for scale.
The dark green line is the Roman ditch, showing as a crop mark. I have added the line of the rampart in red. It no longer exists -- ploughed out long ago -- but the peculiar gate arrangement was recorded at the similar camp at Dalginross while it was still upstanding in the 18th century.
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Thanks Duncan, guess it isn't worth the time then. Which one is it that has all the multiple ditch/ramparts still visible then? I should really tidy up my books and find this out...sorry to ask stupid questions. :roll:
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
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Byron Angel
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Quote:Which one is it that has all the multiple ditch/ramparts still visible then? I should really tidy up my books and find this out...sorry to ask stupid questions. :roll:
As our friend Jona always reminds us, there are no stupid questions!
I think you probably mean Ardoch, near the village of Braco on the road to Crieff.
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Sounds familiar.....guess I'll do some driving bout as I am not home for any event for a while......
Is Inchtuithil worth going to? Or is it just cropmarks too?
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
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Byron Angel
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Thanks for the answers, folks! Hope your day is going well.
So then, there might not have been a "gate" with wooden doors, hinges, etc, is that what I should conclude from this thread? I suppose if the troops were to remain for a while, that could be added after the fact?
M. Demetrius Abicio
(David Wills)
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Quote:Is Inchtuithil worth going to? Or is it just cropmarks too?
Humps and bumps in a field!
I've always viewed the site from the comfort of an internet link with Canmore (see this thread).
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Quote:Inchtuithil
Really has the flavor of a Mayan name, doesn't it? Just down the road from Ixtlan where the temple to Quetzlcoatl is found....
:lol:
M. Demetrius Abicio
(David Wills)
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Thanks Duncan.....guess I will have to learn to spell before I search on it...LOL
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
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Byron Angel
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Quote:So then, there might not have been a "gate" with wooden doors, hinges, etc, is that what I should conclude from this thread? I suppose if the troops were to remain for a while, that could be added after the fact?
Oops -- missed your post while I was writing my own, David.
Definitely no gate.
Archaeologists have never (to my knowledge) found a gate structure in a temporary camp. I suppose that's why we get these rather elaborate gate blocking measures that we've been discussing -- tituli, claviculae, and the Stracathro. STRA-CATH-RO, Byron. :wink:
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