late roman vexila/um

[Lvcivs Commodvs Cicero]

Depending on how large you want to make yours, this item might be usable. It's about 3 inches in diameter. You can easily dremel the top part off and the butterfly shouldn't be too difficult to dislodge either. I use one of these on my LR baldric (mine has an eagle).

I'll have to take a look at that. I was thinking 6-12" diameter for the laurel/wreath would be easier to see.

Here are two pictures : wreath 1 and wreath 2

Those are some nice looking wreaths, me wants.

[Theodosius the Great]

Cicero,

You can watch clips from the TV mini-series "Battle For Rome" on YouTube.

Here's one from the Julius Caesar episode.

And one from the Constantine episode. This one shows the imperial vexillum very nicely.

~Theo

[FAVENTIANVS]

Those are ours:

[Theodosius the Great]

Excellent job !

I really like how the staffs are painted as well.

The red vexillum has the shield emblem from the Notitia Dignitatum ? Or is it a sign of Sol Invictus ? Or both ?

By the way, here is the Battle of the Milvian Bridge (YouTube).

~Theo

[FAVENTIANVS]

Thanx Theodosius!

Yes, u r right it's both the Notitia shield device and the Sol Invictus as well... nice coincidence... :wink:

[Lvcivs Commodvs Cicero]

That is very nice Faventianvs. How did you get the emroidery done?

[FAVENTIANVS]

That is very nice Faventianvs. How did you get the embroidery done?

It's Plotter embroidered.

[Theodosius the Great]

Here is a contemporary depiction of a vexillum that I completely overlooked and it's by far the best one.

Emperor Honorius holds a Vexillum capped with a Chi-ro...



No fringe at the bottom but rather dangling metal pieces, somewhat reminiscent of terminals from 1st century belts. If I'm right then it would seem that this particular vexillum is made of leather. OTOH, it's probably the emperor's Labarum as opposed to a regular vexillum.

~Theo

[Lvcivs Commodvs Cicero]

Just noticed the additional image.

So this says in the name of christ +(I?) always conquer???

[Salvianus]

So this says in the name of christ +(I?) always conquer???

More or less: 'vincas' is the present 2nd person subjunctive, like 'vivas', "may you live" so:

"in the name of Christ may you always conquer"

[Salvianus]

John, do you have said written accounts references so I can look them up?

Thanks

Paulus thanks

I believe the main reference is Eusebius' L:ife of Constantine:

"A tall pole plated with gold had a transverse bar forming the shape of cross. Up at the extreme top a wreath woven of precious stones and gold had been fastened. On it two letters, intimating by its first characters the name of Christ, formed the monogram of the Saviour's title, rho being intersected in the middle by chi."
Eusebius in Vita Constantini The Life of Constantine Book I, trans. Averil Cameron, Stuart G. Hall, (Oxford, Clarendon Press, 1999) p. 81.

I've also seen 'pole' translated 'spear' - I'll see if I can find the Latin to check.

[Salvianus]

O.K....

It was written in Greek :oops: - there seems to be a period Latin translation (?) but that may be less reliable than the Cameron et al translation, availble on Googlebooks. The Victorian English translation in "Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers" is also freely available on the www:

"...calling together the workers in gold and precious stones, he sat in the midst of them, and described to them the figure of the sign he had seen, bidding them represent it in gold and precious stones...

CHAPTER XXXI: A Description of the Standard of the Cross, which the Romans now call the Labarum.

Now it was made in the following manner. A long spear, overlaid with gold, formed the figure of the cross by means of a transverse bar laid over it. On the top of the whole was fixed a wreath of gold and precious stones; and within this, the symbol of the Saviour's name, two letters indicating the name of Christ by means of its initial characters, the letter P being intersected by X in its centre: and these letters the emperor was in the habit of wearing on his helmet at a later period.

From the cross-bar of the spear was suspended a cloth, a royal piece, covered with a profuse embroidery of most brilliant precious stones; and which, being also richly interlaced with gold, presented an indescribable degree of beauty to the beholder. This banner was of a square form, and the upright staff, whose lower section was of great length, bore a golden half-length portrait of the pious emperor and his children on its upper part, beneath the trophy of the cross, and immediately above the embroidered banner.
The emperor constantly made use of this sign of salvation as a safeguard against every adverse and hostile power, and commanded that others similar to it should be carried at the head of all his armies.
The Life of Constantine Book 1.30-31

The simplified form on the attached Constantine's coin omits the wreath and bears three roundels - the suggestion is that the imperial portraits were within these. Interestingly, Eusebius' description doesn't seem to identify what was so richly embroidered on the cloth, and describes the imperial image between it and the wreath with monogram! There are reasons to take his panegyric with a pinch of salt...

There seems to be clear variation over time and I would expect between individual examples.

[Lvcivs Commodvs Cicero]

So I wonder based on the description if the Labrum had roundels like the older standards Above the purple cloth. So it would be PX 3 roundels then the flag. I wish they would give dimensions and what was on the flag.

[Salvianus]

So I wonder based on the description if the Labrum had roundels like the older standards Above the purple cloth.(

Art images aren't great evidence for the objects depicted, but I think they support the idea that the form was the traditional one with some form of Chi-Rho added, so using the earlier find dimensions might be justified. Coins often show the monogram on the cloth (which Comitatus follow, on a spearhead-topped staff) and here's a Constans from 337-40 (?) with the familiar staff roundels below the flag.

[Lvcivs Commodvs Cicero]

Awesome coin find my google-fu is not as strong as yours . I guess I would need to find a source for a roundel so I can put the whole thing together. Of course I will be looking for a later emperor around 400ish.