palisade stake hedgehogs

[Anonymous]

OK, back in the day they were called Pilum murale, but you probably think of them as palisade stakes. I was looking at the experiments where they used these to form a hedgehog along the camp wall, and it made just so much sense to me.<br>
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So now some speculative archeology<br>
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But then it got me to thinking. These would also be useful as a quickly built temporary barrier at any time. Much like a modern day army is commanded to ‘stack arms’ it would not be hard to have a drill where the Romans ‘staked them’ and formed a barrier. If handled correctly, they could be used to form a pretty darn good barrier to break up a charge or slow down an enemy. Or to deny terrain features (gully’s etc.) much like modern day land mines or barbed wire does. If massed deep enough I think would easily stop a cavalry charge.<br>
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I can think of a great many uses of these hastily formed hedgehog obstacles, and figure if I can, then some great military leader could as well. The question is, is there any evidence to this ever being tried? Any references to the laying down of temporary barriers?<br>
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I asked some ancient wargamers I know and the feeling was “they would be too heavy to carry into battle.â€ÂÂ

[LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS]

SALVE<br>
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Ermine Street guard use 3 of that stakes to form a tripod-barrier. Something like the modern iron antitank obstacles. I do'nt know if that use is atested in any form by archaeological evidence.<br>
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VAle <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

I've never come across a reference to that use but it makes sense. Look at the way the English Army at Agincourt in 1415 used stakes to break up the French cavalry. Those were big, six foot things, and they managed to carry them for miles despite being exhausted, half starved and plagued with disease. <p></p><i></i>

[Matthew Amt]

Avete!<br>
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Well, we don't know that they were called "pila muralis", since that term is used for some type of javelin or missile weapon. They may simply have been "sudes" or stakes. Minor detail!<br>
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There is an article by Kate Gilliver, I believe, in one of the volumes of JRMES about these stakes and their possible uses. The tripods are one option, and another is lashing them in successive pairs (X-shaped) with a beam or log running through the middles. Makes a good barrier for a gateway, that can be picked up and moved. Neither is backed by any historical reference or depiction, though.<br>
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I'm not sure if it was in her article or somewhere else where it was pointed out that if the stakes were used as a simple fence along the top of the rampart, they did not have to be driven into the finished work but simply built into it as the dirt is piled up. They could be buried for half their length, which would protect the defenders' legs and overlap the bottoms of their shields. Might not sound very tall, but scrambling up a 6-foot rampart and then trying to get over a 2-1/2 foot tall pointy fence without impaling something sensitive, while the defenders are pelting you with everything, has to be kind of difficult.<br>
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The Romans don't seem to have used battlefield fortifications very often, from what I remember. Having the troops tote stakes to the battlefield wouldn't be much of a problem, though, since many were only about an inch and a half square, not very heavy at all. But if they felt they needed something to fight from behind, more likely they'd just stay in camp since it's already fortified. I vaguely recall Caesar digging extra ditches and such across likely battlefields at times, particularly in Africa, but these seem to have been substantial (if hasty) fortifications and may have included log palisades or things like the interlaced branches such as he used at Alesia. Not the kind of thing the troops would stick in front of them after the enemy is already lined up and ready to attack.<br>
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History's Mysteries! Valete,<br>
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Matthew/Quintus, Legio XX <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

Its just one of those "looking at something and going 'AH-HA!'" moments of 'this could have been done and could have been useful, but was it?<br>
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I suppose it would be fun to wargame such an instance and see if it made any diofference. <p>'but then, what do I know."</p><i></i>

[Hibernicus]

From JRMES 4: Catherine m Gillver prefers the word "valli"<br>
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The phrase pilum murale (one) pila muralia (many) has found it's way into common usage though it may be less correct. I still use it while some use "sudes". We've begun an in-house discussion and will likely transition to "valli".<br>
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We (Legio IX Hispana) for many years have used them as part of our battlefield demo to illustrate how they could be used. .... to slow an enemy, cause him to bunch up, redirect his foot and cavalry into killing pockets, cause him to turn his weapon side towards our lines....<br>
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We are not fans of their use as a sort of fence on top of the vallum. We prefer to use them on the outward facing slope of the vallum and fossa, set at an angle to discourage "leapers". In the softer soil of the vallum they can be placed deeply.<br>
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Hibernicus<br>
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[scythius]

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Hib -<br>
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Have you had Secundus web the photos from the trenching we did at the Santee site? I recall that there were some good pics of the <em>sudes</em> crammed into the face of the berm.<br>
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<p>Scythius<br>
LEG IX HSPA - COH III EXPG - CEN I HIB<br>
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- FIDELITAS - - VIRTUS - - MAGNANIMITAS - </p><i></i>