Impenetrable scutum?

[M. Demetrius]

There has been considerable discussion about whether the scutum actually used by the Roman legionary soldier was impenetrable. Some maintain a pilum would bounce off. Some say it would not, and in fact, would expect some damage to the shield during a battle. Never mind all our particular versions of modern reproduction attempts, however "historically manufactured" they might be, or from what kind of wood they are made.

This exceprt taken from Julius Caesar's The Civil War: (F. P. Long translation, during the protracted battle of Dyrrachium, p. 144)

"When the garrison wanted to adduce evidence of the desperate nature of their struggle, they collected the arrows which had been shot into the fort and counted out before Caesar some thirty thousand; and, on the shield of the centurion Scaeva being brought up for inspection, it was found pierced with a hundred-and-twenty separate holes."

I have not had a look at the "original" Latin, perhaps some of those reading may, and if so, can perhaps confirm or deny the account. Words like "pierced" and "holes", should be easy enough to find and correctly interpret. If correct as translated above, then, how exactly would a scutum receive field repairs?

I once postulated that there must have been in a multi legion campaign, a wagon full of scuta in progress to replace those lost or irreparably damaged in battle (and was publicly scolded and browbeaten for my trouble, btw). The scolder may not remember it, though he is sure to read this, but I most assuredly do.

Having this first hand account, though, certainly lends credence to the possibility. It takes days to make a scutum from wood strips, leather, glue and paint. No soldier would be required to fight without one until his replacement was manufactured, would he? That would not seem to be a good strategem.

So. The question, if we can agree that scuta were not impenetrable, is how should one expect a repair to be made? A scutum that was to be replaced, of course, could be stripped of useable parts, the wood discarded, and the boss and edging, for example, fitted to a new blank. For less drastic repairs, like patching a hole, how do you suppose that was done?

[jkaler48]

Extra Shields (Scutum parma cliptus) should be available from the following sources:

Soldiers in the field hospital for sickness or battle injury

Soldiers who were killed

Soldiers on non direct combat duty (artillery crews holding mules non mounted messengers guarding prisioners Building camps etc)(yes the Roman
Army built camps even as battles were in progress)

If fighting in a civil war situation from the the enemy dead.

The question is would additional shields beyond these sources be required?

[griffin]

I just found the Latin to aid in this discussion

Gaius Julius Caesar, de bello civili (3.53)
scutoque ad eum relato Scaevae centurionis inventa sunt in eo foramina CXX.

and a very rough, word-by-word translation.

When the shield of Scaeva, a centurion, was brought to him, there were found in it 230 holes.


The word for holes is foramen ( foramina in the plural). My Cassel's Latin Dictionary list its meaning as a hole, opening or eye( of a needle). It can also refer to openings in the earth or a net.

No piercings- just holes.

[M. Demetrius]

The question is would additional shields beyond these sources be required

Are we supposing that a scutum was not individualized, but was regarded as common property? I don't know, I'm just asking.

Additionally, would a scutum with 120 holes be considered usable in battle? Seems like its funcitionality would be greatly decreased.

Could those holes be plugged, and if so, with what? (BTW, somewhere else, someone asked if centurions carried scuta, and Scaeva, at least, apparently did [and was glad of that fact, I'd reckon])

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

I would imagine they carried replacements too Dave, The Romans seemed to have made plans for everything......

[PMBardunias]

Additionally, would a scutum with 120 holes be considered usable in battle? Seems like its funcitionality would be greatly decreased.

I believe this shield type was known as the "Casum Helvetii", though I do not know why.

[Matthew Amt]

Should be easy enough to patch holes with wooden plugs (bits of arrow shaft!), gluing any splinters back in place, etc. Gluing a leather or cloth patch over that might be dicey if the painted surface is waxed or oiled, But if you get desperate, nail a piece of sheet metal over it.

A few arrow or spear holes are not likely to impare the shield's function. Even a deep cut from the edge is no big deal. It would take a few chops in the same place to start removing significant chunks, and at that point you can just flip your shield over and march on! The campaign will be over in a couple weeks and you can get a new one when you get back to base. Most campaigns probably didn't have more than one or two battles, anyway.

Now, 120 holes, that's gotta be different! Not sure I'd trust the structural integrity at that point. These aren't neatly drilled holes, remember. And it really won't be pretty if you try to patch all those. However, we don't know if that centurion survived his adventure, so it could have been a moot point.

It wouldn't surprise me if a few spare shields were carried, but I wouldn't guess it was wagonloads of them. As was pointed out, spares will turn up as soldiers are killed (or die of all the other fatal things that happen on the march). Strictly speaking, each man owns his gear, so it definitely would be interested to know what happened to gear belonging to those too sick or injured to carry their stuff! Do a man's tentmates split his load up among themselves to help out? Toss it on the century's wagon? (How is that handled in the modern army?)

It's an interesting question! Be really neat if archeologists ever found a shield with repairs in it. I don't think any were detected in the Dura Europas finds.

Valete,

Matthew

[Hibernicus]

REPAIRING A SCUTUM

Interesting. It would be possible to take one apart. I had to repair two we made... the rawhide front was affixed first (bad soldiers!) and as it cured it flattened out the scutum causing the two inner layers to bow away from the front layer... a void of about 1" down the spine of the scutum... The repair was not complicated.. soaked the entire scutum and put it back into a press. We've also deglued select lath strips if they did not adhere properly.

After this I can imagine how a scutum (or stack of damaged scutums, post battle) could be delaminated by a good soaking... salvage the good lath strips and reuse them in a new scutum...

If the hide cover was cut up it too could be deglued and replaced.

[Hibernicus]

DURABILITY OF A SCUTUM

Legio IX Hispana are conducting tests on the replica scutums we make. Tests are currently on hold pending access to experts and their equipment. When the testing is complete the information will be published.

So far, the scutum seems to be able to do its job.. resisting penetration and damage... watching pilum repeatedly bounce off (leaving a hole and/or with some minor splintering of the inside layer) is somewhat gratifying... and seeing how repeated blows could cause inevitable failure is completely understandable...

Accumulated damage from repeated blows (crushing, edged weapons, javelins/darts, sling stones..) , weather, age , poor care all must affect a scutum's effectiveness.
But was it vulnerable to one (or a few) pilum? I'd say no, but after accumulated damage.. I'd say it's likely

The semicylidrical form was deliberate. So was the method of construction.
The wood species selected for their known strengths. These shields worked! What good would they be if they were vulnerable to a single pilum or "Celtic" javelin?

[Karus]

Dave I think you`re right. Certain items of kit would have been expendable items. Pila, arrows, slingshot, balista bolts etc would have been regarded as just ammunition, something you chucked at the other lot. Sure some bits and pieces could be cannibalised after the battle but extensive stores would have to be made available to replace a dwindling supply. I think it`s the same with scuta (and for that matter anything else that could be irreparably busted on campaign). One encounter with a big barbarian and an axe could reduce your shield to splinters, when the whole legion is engaged and fighting the toll on the gear would be considerable. Obviously some of the less damaged items could be patched up and yes you could pick up a few more or less intact shields from the dead but repairing large numbers of seriously damaged scuta on campaign I don`t think so...I mean when would you get the time? you`re either marching, digging, sleeping, fighting or on stag. Why would`nt you have a couple of cart loads of spares or at the very least blanks that can be fitted with cannibalised parts?? Makes sense to me

Karus

[A_Volpe]

Is there any evidence [in Caesar] that said the arrows went entirely through the shield?

Why not just the arrowheads making it just through all of the layers, but getting 'stuck' before going all the way through?

just because it's 'full of holes' doesn't nessesarily mean every arrow went all the way through the shield. Perhaps just enough to poke out the other side.

Just a thought.

[M. Demetrius]

It just says "holes". I'd think Scaeva would be on beyond lucky into the miraculous if every 120 projectiles came all the way through, and yet he lived. Can't say for sure, though, based on what was written.

But was it vulnerable to one (or a few) pilum? I'd say no, but after accumulated damage.. I'd say it's likely

How does this fit in with the written narrative from Caesar's first hand account? Are you saying that projectile 1 didn't penetrate but 2-121 did?

[Hibernicus]

Yes, I am saying that one is unlikely to penetrate.

This is based on current observations and experience.

But after accumulated damage? Weakened board? Hours, days of combat ?

I can not wait to toss Celtic style darts/javelins and pilum at our generation IV scutums.

Hibernicus

[Endre Fodstad]

You are talking past one another. Hibernicus says their hurled pila often bounce off, the source Demetrius mentions talks about (if I understand correctly) arrows.

In a high medieval context, we have conducted bowfire tests (with a 110lbs draw ash straight-stave bow) against curved shields covered with leather/textiles and gesso (at 6-10 paces range, point blank). The arrows penetrate the shield but do not retain much force after having gone through the wood - after sticking 10 arrows in the shield none of the 3 that hit the padded arm section actually penetrated the padding. Similar tests against a late medieval pavise whose owners wanted some battle damage:

http://www.kongshirden1308.no/galleri/2 ... ge.htm?5,0
http://www.kongshirden1308.no/galleri/2 ... ge.htm?6,0
http://www.kongshirden1308.no/galleri/2 ... ge.htm?7,0

get more or less the same result. While the pavise was uncovered and the shield was thinner, the arrows do not penetrate deep enough to damage the person behind the pavise or shield, although the points most definitely can scratch you if you are careless.

We've been talking about forging some javelins and run the same tests (as Hibernicus' et al. have done) but I imagine it is more difficult to get the projectile to stick in the shield even if it penetrates (as it is far heavier).

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Those are quite sturdy looking planks Endre!
If that was the max penetration, I would be happy, tho' perhaps with a scuta, bit more penetration?