Roman Forts in Northeast England - Wikipedia Articles

[MARCVS PETRONIVS MAIVS]

Does hadrian's wall not follow the stanegate then?

The road may predate the wall, but does the wall not generally follows the road's outline? Seeing as Arbeia was the naval supply base of the eastern part of the wall, could it not be a major road would connect Arbeia to Segedunum and then Pons Aelius, Condercum and then Corbridge, another supply base?

[PhilusEstilius]

As mentioned the Stanegate frontier and Wall frontier are two differing systems, the only reason they are both here together is they are at the narrower part of England. The reason the Wall is located where it is has a lot to do with another more interesting discovery made by the late Ramond Selkirk. Indeed it is one that totaly re writes the Roman history of Btritannia, or it most surely will when archaeology decides to recognise it and get in and do some excavation.

[MARCVS PETRONIVS MAIVS]

Did you not actually tell us for intended drama?

What is the discovery?

[PhilusEstilius]

I refer to yet another Roman frontier discovered by Ramond Selkirk, he named it the 255line, it runs from Whitley Bay to Maryport on the Cumbrian coast. It was named 255 for that is the general heading it takes across the country, it also has fortlets every Roman mile along it's length. Therefore it would appear that the Emperor Harian though mentioned by his Biographer as the first to build a wall of stone across the country, he simply copied somthing that was already there. He was the first to build a wall of stone, for the 255line may have been a barrier of timber and turf.

[MARCVS PETRONIVS MAIVS]

I recall reading that there were isolated milecastles before Hadrian's wall.

Very interesting.

Brian, would you say there is conclusive evidence to prove the Stanegate road continued from Corbridge east and passed by (not through - or maybe through) Condercum, Pons Aelius, Segedunum and Arbeia?

Also, the Concangis article has now been updated with skectes and photos of the finds with kind permission from MC Bishop.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concangis

[PhilusEstilius]

The Stanegate road most certainly does travel east from Corbridge, infact in the middle of the modern town of Cobridge one can walk on the Stanegate road and see its curbs. Then at the far east end of the town there is a very large marching camp with the Stanegate going through it, then yet again at Bywell the Agger of this road can be seen going east across fields. I have myself also traced this road in the village of Whylem, then also a bit further east in the village of Heddon on the Wall. Then from there we approach the city of Newcastle, here of course it is lost under the city but it is safe to assume that it carries on to the east coast. It is a road that is considered most unroman, for in Cumbria it dog legs in all directions to follow the river Erthing. It is to the south of this river and tends to use it as a limes, however after the fort of Magna on Hadrians' wall it straightens out and goes along the north bank of the Tyne past Vindolanda and Corbridge. The Stanegate would go past all the forts you mention apart from Arbeia which is on the south bank of the Tyne.

[MARCVS PETRONIVS MAIVS]

I see. Thanks Brian that has cleared up a whole lot of confusion in my mind.

Also, have you considered my previous point that it may have been a possibility that marching camps where roads go through them (such as the one you have just mentioned) were built specifically when the roads were being built? Perhaps as storage of materials (stone, gravel, sand, whatever) for the solders/slaves/construction workers to carry on building the road? It would make sense to protect these vital materias in the same way an army always picthed up tent and camp when marching.

So, rather than temporary marching camps, these were actually supply bases/logistics depots for the duration of the road construction, that were brought down once the road was finished?

What do you make of this?

[PhilusEstilius]

I personaly think that with marching camps these might be considered as an early situation of only troops on the move, any road building is something that would come much later. With the Dere street going through earlier marching camps it simply shows that in the earlier march it went as straight as possible, and these camps took the most direct route infact the very route the later road builders wanted. The camps were not permanent things so the road simply just goes through them, in short the Roman army did not march and build roads as they went.

[MARCVS PETRONIVS MAIVS]

Understood. I know they did not build roads as they went, but imagine this scenario. A certain part of britain has already been taken, forts (the permanent ones) established, but roads are as of yet unbuilt. Although the territorium is roman, there may still be scattered enemy groups hiding about in the forest and fields from last months major battle which the roman army has, as of yet, been unable to fully subdue.

In this case, seeing as the permament forts have already been built (the ones that were later rebuilt in stone), would it be possible road construction commenced anyway, but due to enemy presence in the area (even if light), would take extra care by building temporary forts as the road went along? The construction crews/slaves/soldiers would have to sleep somewhere, might as well be in a marching camp with all that timber lying around, which, incidently was cut down to make way for the road

Off course, according to ockham's razor the simplest explanation is the most probable one, which off course is yours and the straight line. I just wanted to make sure my point is well explained before we discard it.

[PhilusEstilius]

I dont realy think that after any Roman battle there would be any enemy hanging around anywhere near the Romans. In my opinion it becomes very much like the people who delude themselves that the soldiers of Hadrians' wall were constantly looking over the battlements expecting an enemy coming at them. I think that down on the wall the commanders would know every little detail going on up in the depths of Caladonia, their military intelligence system was better than anything we imagine. Therefore I think that fort or road building would go on in a nice peacefull way, the Roman way thats why they gave us the Pax Romana.

[MARCVS PETRONIVS MAIVS]

Yes, that is what I imagined, just wanted to make it clear.

Thanks.