Police shield wall

[Caballo]

Don't want to get into the politics of it all, but noticed this (rather poor) shield wall formd by the Chinese police in Tibet


And compared it to the rather better drilled RMRS "contra equites" drill

[Tarbicus]

Makes you wonder if, in the heat of battle, that's more like how it would have looked.

[rusty myers]

Our riot shields are the same size, only difference is the handle and arm strap config is totally different. The formations (wedge, line, overhead cover) are nearly identical to the stuff I see us doing at events.

Of course a night stick replaces the short sword, but one wonders....

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Can't see the pic of us...is it the one from Corbridge?

[Jona Lendering]

For my book on Alexander, the Amsterdam police gave me much advise on subjects we RATs call falanx and cavalry. (Not to mention the fire department, which helped me put a royal palace ablaze.) In his book The Face of Battle, John Keegan explains the shockwave that can disturb a tightly-packed group of soldiers, referring to a movie about policemen.

[P. Clodius Secundus]

When describing Roman tactics to the public I usually ask them to "Forget Gladiator and think riot cops instead". It's such a good modern analog to the Roman soldier's experience, right down to the comparable length of the baton and gladius. It makes me wonder how much more efficient a testudo would have been with see-through scutae.

[jvrjenivs]

I don't know that shield pattern on the first photo. Where is it based on?

Otherwise, good to compare those pics. There are many analogues between the ancient and modern world.

[Salvianus]

Interesting. I think it's the vagaries of terrain.

You can see the Police formation might be being distorted by the obstructions on either side of the street (pillars?), anchoring the wings. Perhaps the centre has bowed forward due to some compression of the line in the width of the street, or the wings have stopped at the obstruction and it has taken a momentary delay to halt the centre. Having to push even a single shield wall forward around a tree both disrupts the specific area and bends the line - it reforms swiftly, but not to parade-ground standards.

I think this may have been exacerbated by the detritus, presumably missile bricks, on the ground: I find that one ranker standing or, worse, kneeling on a tent peg or thistle, slipping in mud or pot-hole, moving out of position to avoid horse muck or bush, catching a scabbard fitting on someone else's shield strap, or snagging their mail on someone's shield rivet can create an imperfection, which then amplifies as others have to overextend to cover a hole or support a colleague. Sorted in seconds unless that's when you have to charge or receive an attack. :wink:

[Salvianus]

rusty myers\\n[quote]Our riot shields are the same size, only difference is the handle and arm strap config is totally different. /quote]

I have sometimes wondered about the weight of riot shields and whether that affects their use or protective ability compared to wooden reconstructions.

I find quite a diffence between my light and heavy shields when taking more serious missiles and strikes. It's also quite a compromise between keeping them on station vs absorbing the blow: with a cavalry lance I find myself moving my body to avoid a shield rim in the face, not an option in a tight formation. One thinks of the infamous half brick compared to a staff sling heavy missile!

[rusty myers]

They are much lighter, 5-6 pounds tops. But are made to stop rocks and such, not arrow, spear, etc would go right thru.

[rusty myers]

Of course I think the Police here were not concerned with parade ground perfect formation either, just protecting themselves... Things change when the weapons are real... Important thing is no officers down (from a non-political angle. Same concern we would have).

[Salvianus]

Cheers, Rusty., it must make quite a difference being able to see through them too - our advancing fulcum is blind!

[A_Volpe]

It makes me wonder how much more efficient a testudo would have been with see-through scutae

I'unno, Clodius, would you *really* want to see a projectile coming down ontop of you through your shield?

Esspecially one of George Metz's "Tank Rounds", or one of Fred's 3 pound "ballista atomica" stone balls?

hock:

[Tarbicus]

Thinking of the South Korean police which was discussed a while ago, they were also inch perfect during drills. But when it came to the real thing during a riot, and I suspect they're actually trained better than the ones at the top of the thread, different story altogether.

[Paullus Scipio]

I would agree, Jim. The stress of battle and 'life or death' ( or 'life and limb' in riots) can play havoc with training and drills - but at least they are doing it....

This is why modern armies/police forces ( and ancient ones too) insist on doing their drills over and over, to the annoyance of troops and especially recruits who are bored and complaining they can do it in their sleep!!

.....and that's exactly the point!! :twisted:

When you are gibbering with fear, can't think straight, your best mate is lying dead at your feet, your wits have fled, and the brown stuff is literally running down your leg; when the Centurion shouts " Fulcum!" or the Sergeant yells "Lock and Load!", it has to happen automatically, without thought.......even if it doesn't "look pretty".