Roman views of \'Barbarians\'

[Virilis]

There just might be some interesting insights on this subject on Guy Halsall`s "Barbarian Migrations an the Roman West 376-568". It is a great and a refreshing book indeed!

Halsall claims that the "barbarian fashions" spread first and foremost to the army and from there to other levels of society. The military structure of the west just collapsed and the barbarian contingents / allies of the roman army simply replaced it. It is perhaps a crude oversimplification to say that it left the "barbarians" in control of the army and the "romans" as administrators and tax-payers. Halsall also says that the barbarian identity become so fashionable that even some romans adopted germanic names, which is completely new to me! The same kind of process is perhaps working behind the changes in fashion too?

[sonic]

There just might be some interesting insights on this subject on Guy Halsall`s "Barbarian Migrations an the Roman West 376-568". It is a great and a refreshing book indeed!

Halsall claims that the "barbarian fashions" spread first and foremost to the army and from there to other levels of society. The military structure of the west just collapsed and the barbarian contingents / allies of the roman army simply replaced it. It is perhaps a crude oversimplification to say that it left the "barbarians" in control of the army and the "romans" as administrators and tax-payers. Halsall also says that the barbarian identity become so fashionable that even some romans adopted germanic names, which is completely new to me! The same kind of process is perhaps working behind the changes in fashion too?

Does Halsall give examples/references for his claims about Romans adopting Germanic names? What annoys me is that writers often make these claims and then give no evidence for it: which leaves you wondering whether it is something they want to see, not reality.

My cynicism is coming out again!!

[Virilis]

Ian, you`re right :wink: !

Here is a quote from Halsall`s book (page 469):

By the end of the sixth century, the aristocracy across much of the former western Empire had adopted Germanic personal names. One of the best known instances of this is the Gundulf whom we encountered at the very beginning of this book, whom Gregory of Tours claimed was his maternal great uncle. He was a member of a proud senatorial house and apparently and a brother of the powerful, if unpopular, metropolitan bishop Nicetius of Lyon. Yet whereas his brother had entered the church, Gundul had taken secular service with the kings of Aurasia, serving as domesticus (a Palatine official) before becoming a duke. Gundulf was almost certainly the name he adopted on entering the royal service. The names chosen by the military aristocracy reflected the fact that the new holders of political power had come ultimately from beyond the Rhine-Danube frontiers. A number of other individuals, male and female, are known to have had two names, one Germanic and one Roman. Gregory of Tours refers to an Avius `who was also Vedast`. A number of such names have been recorded from Ostrogothic Italy........Barbarians, like Theoderic, who wished to claim Roman pedigree, took the name Flavius, associated with the Constantinian dynasty. It should not be remarkable that people wishing to move into areas dominated by the barbarians should add a non-Roman name.

[sonic]

Ian, you`re right :wink: !

Here is a quote from Halsall`s book (page 469):

By the end of the sixth century, the aristocracy across much of the former western Empire had adopted Germanic personal names. One of the best known instances of this is the Gundulf whom we encountered at the very beginning of this book, whom Gregory of Tours claimed was his maternal great uncle. He was a member of a proud senatorial house and apparently and a brother of the powerful, if unpopular, metropolitan bishop Nicetius of Lyon. Yet whereas his brother had entered the church, Gundul had taken secular service with the kings of Aurasia, serving as domesticus (a Palatine official) before becoming a duke. Gundulf was almost certainly the name he adopted on entering the royal service. The names chosen by the military aristocracy reflected the fact that the new holders of political power had come ultimately from beyond the Rhine-Danube frontiers. A number of other individuals, male and female, are known to have had two names, one Germanic and one Roman. Gregory of Tours refers to an Avius `who was also Vedast`. A number of such names have been recorded from Ostrogothic Italy........Barbarians, like Theoderic, who wished to claim Roman pedigree, took the name Flavius, associated with the Constantinian dynasty. It should not be remarkable that people wishing to move into areas dominated by the barbarians should add a non-Roman name.

Good grief!! He's given examples!!!!

I think I'll just go and have a lie down ....! :lol:

[Virilis]

Ian, you can stand up now :wink: ...

[marsvigilia]

What about the theory that pants caused the fall of Rome?

[M. Demetrius]

:?:

[marsvigilia]

Pants fall.
Romans started wearing pants.
Rome fell.

It's just a theory.

:?:

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Barbarians.....unwashed hairy, smelly,....uncivilized, wild animals, primative creatures......uneducated, not really human....etc etc :twisted:

[M. Demetrius]

Skunks smell.
Nostrils smell.
Nostrils are skunks. :lol: :roll:

[Robert Vermaat]

Feet run.
Noses run.
Feet smell.
Noses smell.
Noses are feet.

[Memmia]

If any part of your body is 12 inches long then it's a foot :wink:

[Virilis]

Sigh :roll: ...

This is the very last book review I make on RAT...

[M. Demetrius]

Don't be discouraged, Virilis, jocularity is the soul of humor. :lol: :lol:

[Virilis]

Don't be discouraged, Virilis, jocularity is the soul of humor. :lol: :lol:

Jocularity hock: ? Is it something you can eat!?