ROMAN BUILDING SITE PLANS

[Epictetus]

I know this is several months late, but I was browsing through some older topics and saw this. Since I just had my Vitruvius out for another topic I thought I could use him here too.

Secondly, [the architect] must have a knowledge of drawing so that he can readily make sketches to show the appearance of the work which he proposes. Geometry, also, is of much assistance in architecture, and in particular it teaches us the use of the rule and compasses, by which especially we acquire readiness in making plans for buildings in their grounds, and rightly apply the square, the level, and the plummet.

Vitruvius. 1.1.4.

Arrangement includes the putting of things in their proper places and the elegance of effect which is due to adjustments appropriate to the character of the work. Its forms of expression are these: groundplan, elevation, and perspective. A groundplan is made by the proper successive use of compasses and rule, through which we get outlines for the plane surfaces of buildings. An elevation is a picture of the front of a building, set upright and properly drawn in the proportions of the contemplated work. Perspective is the method of sketching a front with the sides withdrawing into the background, the lines all meeting in the centre of a circle.

Vitruvius. 1.2.2.

So it seems that architects did make detailed plans.

[Frontinus]

Thank you for your contribution and the addtition to the sources.
Which copy of Vitruvius are you using, mine is the Rowland and Howe complete with line drawings to illustarte the text. Highly recommended.
I spend too much time looking at the drawings then reverting to the text.
My current obsession to to biuld a comp[lete set of Roman Surveying equipment and test it out. current acheivement is to be within 50mm of a straight line over 180m with ranging rods without much effort and checked by a Total Station. Bit more practice and using my recently finished Groma, should increase the accuracy. J-P Adam, Roman Building Materials and Techniques, claims +/- 4mm over 51.3m with the Chorobate.
I am constructing a Water Level and Staff based Vitruvius 8.6.1-3 as a simpler and easily transportable variation which should (must)be finished for a display at the British Museum in Sept, after which I will instigate some field tests.
What has all this got to do with drawings you may reasonably aske. The answer is that is a basic part of the building process and you have to be able to record the information in some tangable and visual form to get anything beyond a vernacular hut built. I am trying out using sized cloth to illustrate and record my adventures and cannot imagine that there is a simpler more effective way and, just like the Romans it does not leave a trace for posterity.
They did have drawings on the simple basis that you cannot build without them in some form.
To pinch a quote from elsewhere " absense of evidence is not evidence of absense" :

Frontinus

[M. Demetrius]

We always do it that way Guv'nor"

You could use, Sic semper facimus, Domine. (Thus always we-make Sir.)

That might not be good Latin, but it might work. Correction welcome. Not sure what Guv'nor would translate to, because it's sort of a vernacular.

But it occurs to me (this is edited in) that Sic semper factus would probably be better. (Thus always [it is] made)

[Wander]

In the novels, they often use, "Legate" where someone might use "Guv'nor."

Just my 2 denarii worth.

[Frontinus]

Thankyou to M.Detmetrius and Wander for your contribution.
The vernacular does appeal to me as I have no doubt that the 'lower orders' used this form then as now and, as now, in formal records and the like it is the 'correct form' that gets written down. Oh dear have I started a new subject?
The new Groma had it's first public outing this weekend to be told by a lady visitor following the explantion of what it was and did said " never mind all that they would have used it as a game" and walked off. Not a point of view that could be argue with! :roll:

Frontinus

[romanonick]

Most rude of me not to have acknowledged recent additions to this topic. Thank you all - particularly Frontinus - I like your application of logic and also your use of sized cloth!
Any thoughts on the possibility of parchment (or even papyrus?) being used as a more durable item for plans ? Retention of such a document over a period of time would then have helped to resolve any future post building completion reference or query if needed. Or even an extension to the original work !

Regards,

Romanonick/Nick Deacon

[Sean Manning]

Most rude of me not to have acknowledged recent additions to this topic. Thank you all - particularly Frontinus - I like your application of logic and also your use of sized cloth!
Any thoughts on the possibility of parchment (or even papyrus?) being used as a more durable item for plans ? Retention of such a document over a period of time would then have helped to resolve any future post building completion reference or query if needed. Or even an extension to the original work !

Regards,

Romanonick/Nick Deacon

There is a famous plan on parchment from the Carolingian age. It shows an ideal Benedictine monestary. For most buildings the Romans might have just used a few waxed tablets, though!

[Frontinus]

Thanks for your comments / additions to the debate.
I think that the use of Papyrus or parchment is a possibility but have serious doubts about wax tablets. My experience with large sheets of paper on modern building sites demonstrates the problem in that they do not last very long with the multiple, and largely rough handling, which is why I favour the cloth as a medium for durability. The other aspect is that once the building is finished there is not the modern need for record keeping. It is done and finished.

Back to an earlier topic that of ' thats the way we always do it guvnor '.
A knowledgeable friend suggests the following:
My researches have led me to : "REM SEMPER SIC FACIMVS ERE" - literally - it always thus we do boss/guv'nor. As REM FACIMUS can mean 'we get rich' it adds a nice edge, although REM may be omitted. ERE, visually like 'ere as in " 'ere wot the 'ell are you playin' at?" is pronounced to rhyme with berry. It has connotations of master-slave relationship and seems to my ears at least less ponderous than DOMINE.

Frontinus

[romanonick]

Thanks Frontinus and Sean.

Sounds like Robert Tressell and the 'Ragged Trousered Philanthropists' are alive and well ! - although I'm not sure that the 'humanitas' expressed by the master would stretch sufficiently to overlook any such comments from the 'pannosus' in the age we are referring to !!! :lol:
Cheers again for the info.

Romanonick/Nick Deacon.