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In the Osprey Publishing book, "Rome's Enemies 1, Germanics and Dacians," by Peter Wilcox the author states a Dacian shield "...found at Pietra-Rosie in Romania, at present unpublished, bears plant motifs, and the likeness of a boar in the centre." Since I have such an interest in shields, I was hoping someone here knows something more of this discovery. The book was last published in 1993, so perhaps the find has been published since then? If anyone can direct me to more info on this I would be most appreciative!<br>
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Thanks,<br>
Andy <p></p><i></i>
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.redrampant.com">www.redrampant.com
There are many Dacian shields shown on [url=http://cheiron.humanities.mcmaster.ca/~trajan/" target="top]Trajan's Column[/url].<br>
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The above link does not show images of the pedestal where there are lots of nice shield designs. However, I do have many photographs of the pedestal which I could e-mail to you if you wish. Many of the designs feature floral images. <p></p><i></i>
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Thanks, I would like to see your photos of the base if you have close-ups of the shields. All the photos of the base I've seen were taken from quite far away.<br>
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But, I am interested in learning about the construction of the actual shield found in Romania. What materials were used? How the design was made, etc. This seems like a major find - an intact 1st century shield with the design still visible! It would be a shame if it has yet to be published!<br>
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-Andy <p></p><i></i>
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.redrampant.com">www.redrampant.com
I found this reference at www.gaulois.org/instrumentum/25.HTM :<br>
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G. Florea, L. Suciu, Observatii cu privire la scutul de la Pietra Rosie. Ephem. Napocensis V, 1995, 47-60.<br>
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Good luck finding it!! <p></p><i></i>
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Merci! That looks like it could be it! I'm glad it is written in French and not Romanian! I might actually be able to translate it!<br>
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-Andy <p></p><i></i>
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Well, the title at least is written in Romanian...<br>
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Aitor <p></p><i></i>
It\'s all an accident, an accident of hands. Mine, others, all without mind, from one extreme to another, but neither works nor will ever.
Rolf Steiner
Ah, but Romanian's just a dialect of late Latin anyway, it should be easy ....<br>
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(he said with an optimism he didn't really feel!) <p></p><i></i>
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Uh-oh. The title IS Romanian? I saw the "...de la..." and figured the rest was French, since it's on a French site. Well, if I ever actually get a hold of this article, hopefully it will have lots of drawings and photos!<br>
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-Andy <p></p><i></i>
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Ave Andrew!<br>
<br>
I recently had the opportunity to research a pair of iron Dacian parade shields in which I made extensive use of the article you are referring to (I had an English translations done so I could read it). Contact me off-board at [email protected] , and I'll send you a copy, along with the associated material.<br>
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T. Flavius Crispus<br>
Legio VI Victrix Pia Fidelis<br>
California USA<br>
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(aka David S. Michaels) <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=flaviuscrispus@romanarmytalk>FlaviusCrispus</A> <IMG HEIGHT=10 WIDTH=10 SRC="http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/legiovi/vwp?.dir=/Flavius+photo&.src=gr&.dnm=flavhead2.jpg" BORDER=0> at: 1/8/04 7:54 pm<br></i>
T. Flavius Crispus / David S. Michaels
Centurio Pilus Prior,
Legio VI VPF
CA, USA
"Oderint dum probent."
Tiberius
Just out of curiosity -- how do you get English translations done of articles (or books) written in another language? Thanks =p <p></p><i></i>
Flavius Crispus - "iron Dacian parade shields"? Wow! Tell us more!! That sounds really interesting and unusual. Are they just thin iron facings over a conventional shield, or heavy solid iron stuff? Any pictures you can post?<br>
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I didn't even know the Dacians had parades.... <p></p><i></i>
Salvete,<br>
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Very interested in this discussion on Dacian shields! Does anyone have any recommendations for literature/scholarship on this subject? I am also wondering why the Trajan era Roman legions wore the Imperial Italic helmets with the cross-braces? Was this some sort of defensive response to the Dacian two-handed sword? Would these braces provide much protection against this type of weapon?<br>
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Thanks!<br>
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Curate ut valeatis,<br>
<br>
Centurion725 <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=centurion725>Centurion725</A> <IMG HEIGHT=10 WIDTH=10 SRC="http://images.honesty.com/imagedata/h/568/59/25685916.jpg" BORDER=0> at: 1/26/04 9:51 pm<br></i>
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Peter Connolly has 2 nice little books on the subject: "The Legionary" and "The Cavalryman." The 1st book does say that the cross pieces were added probably in response to the hefty 2-handed Dacian blade, the falx. Helmets that have been found with these cross pieces show the strips of metal were rather awkwardly attached over details of the helmet, such as the embossed eyebrows. This implies the cross piece was an immediate fix to the problem, rather than part of the original helmet design. The segmented arm guard and greeves were presumably introduced for the same reason.<br>
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-Andy <p></p><i></i>
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Check out the photos of a reconstructed Dacian falx in action on the Legio XX Roman Days page, and see why you want a little more metal between you and it!<br>
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www.larp.com/legioxx/rdays.html<br>
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As I see it, the idea is that if you can survive the first hit from the falx, you can gut the wielder easily because he has no shield. But you need more armor to survive that hit! Scary thing, the falx. (But then, so is a pilum!)<br>
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The interesting thing is that in the second century, things like cross-braced helmets (made that way, not retrofitted) and the armguard or manica start showing up in other parts of the empire (Judea, Britain, and Spain, for example), where the falx was not found. Presumably it was realized that these stop-gap added bits of protection were just a good idea anywhere. It doesn't look like the manica and greaves became "standard issue" for all legionaries, by any means, maybe just optional extras for the front-rankers.<br>
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Valete,<br>
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Matthew/Quintus <p></p><i></i>
Matthew Amt (Quintus)
Legio XX, USA
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.larp.com/legioxx/">http://www.larp.com/legioxx/
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Wow! I just looked a your Roman Days falx photo. It looks like that thing cut almost a foot down into the shield! Was your Dacian able to pull the blade out easily? I could see how an initial charge of falx men could really throw a first rank into disarray! Has Connolly or someone done a field test / report about the falx? I seem to remember hearing that someone.<br>
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-Andy <p></p><i></i>
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