09-14-2003, 01:31 PM
Guys been on vacation?<br>
I was beginning to fear I was taken too seriously. But then there are those that prefer to not answer because they are "superior". JOKING!!! Just playing around a bit. Forgive me.<br>
<br>
Cimbri and Teutons were not legends at least not when they got slaughtered. I also don't forget that the Romans got slaughtered too at Arausio and of course at the great Teutoburg!<br>
<br>
But I wish to resist thinking in terms of body count. I really do believe that more germans warriors were killed by romans legionaries than the other way around. But even is this were so it would be as useless as trying to argue that one-on-one the average german was better than the average roman.<br>
<br>
Many armies have learned, the romans too, and recently the US in Vietnam (Iraq?), that victory cannot be measured in terms of body counts. But it is also true that the roman empire lasted quite a long time inspite of Arminius, Kniva and other exceptionally capable "barbarian" leaders and the unquestionable(?)one-on-one superiority of the warrior-trained-since-birth warriors.<br>
<br>
I take my hat off to Arminus, Kniva and many unknown germanic leaders that had to fight against roman imperialism, both explicit with invading killing, raping and deadly armies, and implicit with those economic forces that change ways. I am sure many intelligent creative and heroically desperate fights took place that no one ever documented. I personally think there only a small chance that another rare Tacitus-like book will be suddenly found to tell some incredible and incredibly forgotten story. But t happened with Tacitus' Germania so it might even happen today (maybe the lost book by Pliny in the charred books of the huge private library in Pompeii might tell us something new).<br>
<br>
Tacitus. Thank god he left us something to read about the germans. Had it not been for him we would have had to deduce everything from difficult to interpret archelogical finds and be left with running incredible risks in extrapolating or forcing analogies from what is known of peoples of far FAR later periods.<br>
<br>
But actually I think the Romans (Tacitus) is probably credible in the emphasis of the descriptions because he was moralizing when writing of the Germans. Moralizing works when the reader can "see" and recongnize the truth. I think the ancient romans were somehow fascinated with the vigor and freedom of the free yelling blonde warriors as they felt that way about their own ancient ancestors ("them good old days when we too were free and yelling warriors, maybe not so blonde and not corrupt by all this greek or asian stuff").<br>
<br>
But in general lesser moralizing historians are very dangerous to take to the letter! By trying to prove a point they delete and manipulate facts and might even invent some to cover a gap in the story here and there. But I understand that Tactitus' descriptions have found confirmations in cross-checks but more interestingly in field work. So hurray for the Germans but a triple hurray for a culture that allowed a Tacitus to come into being.<br>
<p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=goffredo>goffredo</A> at: 9/15/03 11:00 am<br></i>
I was beginning to fear I was taken too seriously. But then there are those that prefer to not answer because they are "superior". JOKING!!! Just playing around a bit. Forgive me.<br>
<br>
Cimbri and Teutons were not legends at least not when they got slaughtered. I also don't forget that the Romans got slaughtered too at Arausio and of course at the great Teutoburg!<br>
<br>
But I wish to resist thinking in terms of body count. I really do believe that more germans warriors were killed by romans legionaries than the other way around. But even is this were so it would be as useless as trying to argue that one-on-one the average german was better than the average roman.<br>
<br>
Many armies have learned, the romans too, and recently the US in Vietnam (Iraq?), that victory cannot be measured in terms of body counts. But it is also true that the roman empire lasted quite a long time inspite of Arminius, Kniva and other exceptionally capable "barbarian" leaders and the unquestionable(?)one-on-one superiority of the warrior-trained-since-birth warriors.<br>
<br>
I take my hat off to Arminus, Kniva and many unknown germanic leaders that had to fight against roman imperialism, both explicit with invading killing, raping and deadly armies, and implicit with those economic forces that change ways. I am sure many intelligent creative and heroically desperate fights took place that no one ever documented. I personally think there only a small chance that another rare Tacitus-like book will be suddenly found to tell some incredible and incredibly forgotten story. But t happened with Tacitus' Germania so it might even happen today (maybe the lost book by Pliny in the charred books of the huge private library in Pompeii might tell us something new).<br>
<br>
Tacitus. Thank god he left us something to read about the germans. Had it not been for him we would have had to deduce everything from difficult to interpret archelogical finds and be left with running incredible risks in extrapolating or forcing analogies from what is known of peoples of far FAR later periods.<br>
<br>
But actually I think the Romans (Tacitus) is probably credible in the emphasis of the descriptions because he was moralizing when writing of the Germans. Moralizing works when the reader can "see" and recongnize the truth. I think the ancient romans were somehow fascinated with the vigor and freedom of the free yelling blonde warriors as they felt that way about their own ancient ancestors ("them good old days when we too were free and yelling warriors, maybe not so blonde and not corrupt by all this greek or asian stuff").<br>
<br>
But in general lesser moralizing historians are very dangerous to take to the letter! By trying to prove a point they delete and manipulate facts and might even invent some to cover a gap in the story here and there. But I understand that Tactitus' descriptions have found confirmations in cross-checks but more interestingly in field work. So hurray for the Germans but a triple hurray for a culture that allowed a Tacitus to come into being.<br>
<p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=goffredo>goffredo</A> at: 9/15/03 11:00 am<br></i>
Jeffery Wyss
"Si vos es non secui of solutio tunc vos es secui of preciptate."
"Si vos es non secui of solutio tunc vos es secui of preciptate."
