A couple of late Roman helmet questions

[angelo]

I am new to the forum. Joined actually because it has a considerable amount of information about my favorite subject; The Late Roman Empire.
So, my first post is about a couple of helmet questions:

a- I am very curious about attic-style helmets mentioned on Osprey Warrior Series 9, Late Roman Infantryman page 56 depicting armored infantry and cavalry from a 6th century on a Egyptian ivory piece. The plate “Lâ€

[Iagoba]

Hi, Angelo, Welcome to RAT!

Please write your real name in the signature, it´s a forum rule.

I´m afraid I can´t help you, but I´m sur someone here can. :wink:

[Robert Vermaat]

Hi, Angelo, Welcome to RAT!
Please write your real name in the signature, it´s a forum rule.

Actually, Angelo's name is his user name, so he doesn't have to write it twice... :wink:

Hi Angelo,

This is about the so-called 'Attic' helmet?
I think we talked about such helmets (like the 'Frankhelm') before, actually years before. But the so-called 'Attic' helmet is a similar case, only represented in art, while so far nothing has been found that's complete AND looking like such a helmet.
So I guess it's your guess and my guess, and everybody's guess. But I won't commishion anyone to make me a reconstruction just yet!

About the Worms-Intercisa type ridge helmet, in here is a picture of it, with the odd-looking rim. You'll notice that McBride's reconstruction was very accurate about that part. So did it continue all across the rim? I think not, there should be holes present to attach it, but there aren't. I would indeed have a leather edging though.

I hope that helped.

[aitor iriarte]

Robert, Angelo,
I am far from my 'sources' now ?

Aitor

[Nathan Ross]

I think we talked about such helmets (like the 'Frankhelm') before, actually years before. But the so-called 'Attic' helmet is a similar case, only represented in art, while so far nothing has been found that's complete AND looking like such a helmet.

It's a shame some of the images are gone from that thread - there was a rather neat hypothetical reconstruction drawing by Antonius of the 'mystery helmet'.

Actually there's another depiction of it that wasn't mentioned on the thread above, from a second/third-century context: the tombstone of Ares:



The complete stone, from the image base: [url:kef0hzpf]http://www.romanarmy.com/cms/component/option,com_imagebase/task,view/cid,163/Itemid,94/[/url]

The version in the Osprey book's a bit shaky, IMO, but I still believe this was a distinct type of helmet, as yet unknown in the archeological record but in fairly wide use over a lengthy period. But as Robert says, there's not enough to go on for anyone to try a proper reconstruction!

- Nathan

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Welcome to RAT Angelo! That was my great great grandathers name!

Well, Angelos, which is the Greek variation.

[angelo]

Thank you all for your prompt replies.

I guess the attic will remain a question until we stumble into some hard evidence. If anyone still have the drawing mentioned by Nathan I would be curious to see it.

Robert and Aitor,

Regarding the worms; when looking at the right hand side image of the original helmet from your image database (which is great by the way) I was tempted to assume that Angus reconstruction was correct and the rim finished at the cheek-guards, but when I look at the left hand side image the rim ends further forward giving me a feeling of being unfinished and unbalance as if something is missing. It seems to me that the rim going around would make sense, I just can’t explain the missing holes…

Angelo