specifics in Spear fighting combat

[PMBardunias]

....I don't think Xenophon believed 'Depth' was the secret per se....he is pretty scathing of deep formations in the Cyropaedia, as I mentioned earlier......

He's scathing because the 50 deep phalanx and the oblique line is a one (two) trick pony. He himself in the Cyropedia shows how to easily defeat it. You know I believe that Agiselaos did attempt to isolate and defeat it at Mantinea as well- a battle which was basically a draw. I think the Thebans themselves were quite aware of the vulnerability of this formation. Both at Leuktra and Mantinea a tactical head start was required by the Thebans to effect it properly.

Neither in his description of Leuktra or Mantinea does he give the credit for the Theban success to their depth.....rather, at Leuktra, he credits their success to "..they calculated that, if they proved superior in that part of the field where the King was, all the rest would be easy.."

Superior in out-pushing the Spartans who were the masters of Othismos combat.

elsewhere pointing out the effect on an army if one part starts to retreat. Compare Epaminondas' famous analogy to cutting off the head of the snake.

By pushing the head of the snake out of formation and breaking the coherence of the line. Hence the Embolon, ram, analogy.

As clear example as one could wish for of Hoplites in column/open order, even Spartan ones, being unable to prevail against a close order line....

It is a clear example of a line of enomotia in 2's failing to deploy before combat and having to do so spontaneously- perhaps mushrooming as you describe, but perhaps attempting to deploy in the usual fashion and failing. Important to our earlier discussion is that they deploy into battle formation directly from enomotia as they always did. In this case they simply failed to do so fast enough and had to retreat. Note as well that the Spartans lose! This was not a superior formation, but a battlefield blunder.


The Thebans clearly were not in marching order like these enomotia or Xenophon would have mentioned it. Since Pagondas it is clear that there was no attempt ny the thebans to deploy from the deep phalanx- which we must remenber was still wider than it was deep and would not be confused with a column.

It doesn't sound as if the Arcadian line attempted to lap their line round the column either...they seem to have been content to hold their ground...

Odd how a linear phalanx is reluctant to risk its coherence and the safety of its flanks by even attempting to bend around this presumably wedge shaped force of Spartans. Just as they were unlikely to enter small gaps in lines. :wink: