05-22-2008, 06:33 PM
Well, they're running at Barbarians. And Herodotus says that when the Athenians charged the Medes at Marathon, they were the first Greeks to "run.' And that's run as in a race, when charging.
But yes, Marcus Ulpius Trajanus, I concur that it is not just possible but probable that they had a different way of fighting various different opponents. I find it hard to read Hellenika, with all the different things tried there, or Polyaenus, which is less easy to read but FULL of cool stuff, without seeing that there is not one Hoplite truth. Not only do some things evolve over time, but different generals take time to train their men to different tasks. Look at the Spartans sending different age groups off on "raids" against enemy skirmishers. Look at Iphacrates (forget his so-called reforms, just look at the training he put them to). Scholars have a belief that the hoplite way of war was unchanged for 300 years--hey, people try to say the same about medieval knights. Daft. There was change every campaign. We just can't document is all, and neither could they, and hence we're surprised by all of the deviations from "the norm."
I don't think there's a "norm." Except maybe in Sparta, and even they could improvise. But a careful reading of any campaign account shows that the first thing a commander did was to recondition his men (ie, many are out of shape in the spring) and the second was to march a lot and practice (hmm, sounds like Fit For Service, actually).
I'm really into seeing what effect naval training had on Hoplites at the moment. Considering that 12-1800 Athenian hoplites went off every year on ships...
But I'm a heretic.
But yes, Marcus Ulpius Trajanus, I concur that it is not just possible but probable that they had a different way of fighting various different opponents. I find it hard to read Hellenika, with all the different things tried there, or Polyaenus, which is less easy to read but FULL of cool stuff, without seeing that there is not one Hoplite truth. Not only do some things evolve over time, but different generals take time to train their men to different tasks. Look at the Spartans sending different age groups off on "raids" against enemy skirmishers. Look at Iphacrates (forget his so-called reforms, just look at the training he put them to). Scholars have a belief that the hoplite way of war was unchanged for 300 years--hey, people try to say the same about medieval knights. Daft. There was change every campaign. We just can't document is all, and neither could they, and hence we're surprised by all of the deviations from "the norm."
I don't think there's a "norm." Except maybe in Sparta, and even they could improvise. But a careful reading of any campaign account shows that the first thing a commander did was to recondition his men (ie, many are out of shape in the spring) and the second was to march a lot and practice (hmm, sounds like Fit For Service, actually).
I'm really into seeing what effect naval training had on Hoplites at the moment. Considering that 12-1800 Athenian hoplites went off every year on ships...
But I'm a heretic.
Qui plus fait, miex vault.
