Choosing a new Scutum Emblem/Scheme (Controversial!)

[Magnus]

Do you think the laurel wreath was some kind of celebratory shield design though, used temporarily to show victory during the dacian campaigns?

[M. Demetrius]

So, Magnus, are you going to copyright your design? :roll: :wink:

[Magnus]

Bahahhahahah... 8)

[Senovara]

:lol: oh dear ... best not to go through that again fellas. :lol:

Anyway, I really like the green, Matt. Really makes your group stand out! (and that dark green shade makes me think of the Rohirrim ... not that it has to do with anything LOL)

[M. Demetrius]

If you end up having auxilia in your group, Magnus, what color will you make their shields? Golden yellow or yellow ochre would be a good fit with the green, and maybe rust colored tunics.

But what do I know?

[Dan Diffendale]

As to colour, many years ago, Phil Barker maintained that Vegetius, in referring to the 'antiqua Legio', "...stated that each cohort of a Legion used a different main colour, though presumably keeping to a common design.." ( Armies and Enemies of Imperial Rome, 3rd edition) - curiously dropped from the 4th edition....This idea also appeared in Peter Connolly's "Roman Army" and "Greece and Rome at War".

I have not personally seen this reference, but then there is no complete translation of Vegetius into English, apparently.....Perhaps someone with access to the complete Vegetius can enlighten us as to whether this another 'Barker Myth'...?

De Re Militari 2.18,
Sed ne milites aliquando in tumultu proelii a suis contubernalibus aberrarent, diuersis cohortibus diuersa in scutis signa pingebant, ut ipsi nominant, digmata, sicut etiam nunc moris est fieri.
http://www.thelatinlibrary.com/vegetius2.html

"Lest the soldiers in the confusion of battle should be separated from their comrades, every cohort had its shields painted in a manner peculiar to itself."
http://www.pvv.ntnu.no/~madsb/home/war/ ... dere05.php

It says they were painted differently, but nothing explicitly about color.

[Matt Lukes]

Yeah, I'm liking the green idea too- variation was the norm clearly, so why not in base colour? Colour choice is hardly as dodgy an issue as creating an object that isn't known to have existed- so long as it's certain the Romans could have made the paint, and there's no clear reason to believe it wouldn't have been used, I say why not? There's enough red out there :wink: And I like the longer text in the tabulae too- it makes less sense to me to break up LEG and II than it does to include the subtitle abbreviations.

And as far as the Legionary vs. Auxilia emblem idea goes, I agree that it's a non-issue; the wings and thunderbolts are clearly a Legionary motif, so the possibility that they might have been used sometimes by non-Legionary units ought not to enter in to whether or not it's appropriate for you to use- unless it can be demonstrated that the extra thunderbolts were an important differentiator or something

[Marcus Mummius]

My group uses a red background, but I've nothing against a green one. It will make your group stand out from the rest.

Our new shielddesign does not have a tabula in it, so we haven't got that to worry about.

If I had to choose I'd put the legion numer in one and the cohort number in the other. On the inside of the shields we paint a tabula with the soldier's name and the centurion's name.

Vale,

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Which reminds me, I need to paint some info on my own scutum.... :oops: :roll:

[Peroni]

If I had to choose I'd put the legion numer in one and the cohort number in the other. On the inside of the shields we paint a tabula with the soldier's name and the centurion's name.

It's just as feasible for the soldier's name and century to go in the tabula on the front as well IMO. After all, we are all in agreement that it was the basic design and colour that showed which legion/cohort they belonged to.

[Marcus Iulius Chattus]

@ Magnus.
I like the green one, because most Legionary-Groups use red as there shield-colour.
In my Auxillary-Group, our colour is blue for the shields (and in different shades for the tunics), and we paint our own names and that of our cohors on the inside.

[Magnus]

Gee, I didn't think about personalizing the tablets on the scuta...I'll have to play around with that.

Great ideas and feedback guys! It is much appreciated!

[Paullus Scipio]

Dan wrote:-

"Lest the soldiers in the confusion of battle should be separated from their comrades, every cohort had its shields painted in a manner peculiar to itself."

....ah! I know that passage but thought that Phil was referring to a different passage, though I can see the connection now that you have drawn attention to it.....Thanks, Dan !
Rather ambiguous, since it could also be interpreted as all the same colour, but different badges/emblema. However on balance, same emblema, different colours would seem to fit the facts better.....

[Paullus Scipio]

Here are the the pages of designs and notes from Barker's "Armies and Enemies of Imperial Rome" I promised earlier - as I mentioned in my 19 Feb post, some of the notes I have changed my mind on.... :wink:

[Magnus]

Thanks a lot Paul! Great resources, and the sketches from Barker are great!