Manuballista

[AuxArcher]

And a very good lecture it was, too. Thanks Duncan. I had always associated the term ballista with the big stone throwing machines.

I also wonder what happened to them. The bone or scrap yard? Cannabilized the things?

From here on out, I will refer to my work as a scropio or scorpio minor, or it's proper name, "Sharp Little Teeth." Thanks to you for the translation, of course!

[petrinus]

so its terminology that is contextualy too late then, the manuballista, ....scorpio minor it is then asuming one is standing firm in the 1st century, but is it misunderstood on my part that later romans may have called it a manuballista, as in would that be a correct term in say the 4th century? thanks for this schooling of sorts because i hate to ever discuss a thing and be woefully misinformed on it and left feeling all types of retarded. i like to intelligently offer up the contrary with academic fact to back it up, and i thank you all for your insights.

a final inquirey into this device, is this something infantry, archers, or officers would have carried? by what type of soldier and with what frequency do we suspect them to have been employed? it seems dreadfully technical to outfit a gang of archers with. :?

[AuxArcher]

We can get so hung up on terminology, eh? I am avoiding the term manuballista for earlier small machines, including my own. Probably they called all catapults catapults.

My understanding is that regular legionaries were assiged to artillary duties, at least for part of the Imperial and probably republic times. So, why not ex-archers? They would have at least an understanding of missile projectiles.

[Emmanuel]

Hello,

I am the praefectus fabrum of the leg VIII Augusta of Albi in France and I have the responsability of the artillery of the legion in this group which have two carrobalista. I prepare a thesis on the the ballistas in the roman world. I have made a carrobalista by myself and a cheirobalistra which is a little different than the one of Aitor Iriarte. My is Palintone his is euthyton. The two are possible. For the manubalista, in a few weeks or months... we will have two reproductions of the little scorpio. They will be not exactly the same of the reconstitution of the museum of Bonn. If you come at the big exihition at Marles in 28 and 29 of June, you can see the two of us and the one of the opladen and the oe of the Ermine street gard, and the one of the XXII primigenia. I ythink that it will be interresant as challenge to compare the performances of the engines, isn't it ? The name of the manu balista comes, as my mind of the fact that it can be armed just with the strong of the arm.

[jkaler48]

I am in the process of gathering detailed research information and posting it
on my Roman Artillery Yahoo Group there is a section on the Manuballista with some photos;
Roman Artillery Yahoo Group for info storage

[AuxArcher]

John, I just joined that new Yahoo group. Looks like I am member number 2. I hope more find it and we can get something going.

[aitor iriarte]

Hi Emmanuel,

I am a little puzzled... I think that my small catapult is a palintone, not an euthytone hock:

Could you, please, post some pics of your reconstructed Cheiroballistra here? 8)

Aitor

[Emmanuel]

Hello Aitor,

This is my proposition of reconstruction of the Cheriroballistra of Héron d'aelxandrie. It's quite different of your. The armes of mine are in the exterior of the klimakion and in your the arms are in the interior of the klimakion. Excuse me for the distinction of the euthytone/palintone. I make a mistake.

[aitor iriarte]

OK, Emmanuel, many thanks!
Now I see that your machine is an outswinger 8)

Aitor

[Emmanuel]

Sory Aitor for my English. I can with it touch at 100 hundred meters. Have you somes informations for the type of arrows. I Try to mhe them about the form of the arrow which is found at doura europos with the conical wood, but they are totaly corrects. Thanks

[D B Campbell]

... a cheirobalistra which is a little different than the one of Aitor Iriarte. My is Palintone his is euthyton. The two are possible.

'fraid not, Emmanuel. The cheiroballistra is a palintone.

Heron makes it quite clear that the euthytone's springs are right next to each other, on either side of the slider. So he's talking about the Vitruvian-style arrow-shooter. The scorpio, or catapulta.

Excuse me for the distinction of the euthytone/palintone. I make a mistake.

Oh, I see. You were differentiating between "inswinger" and "outswinger"!

The name of the manubalista comes, as my mind of the fact that it can be armed just with the strong of the arm.

"Manuballista" is just the Latin translation of the Greek word "cheiroballistra". So it's the same iron-framed arrow-shooter.

[Emmanuel]

I think that for the name of this engine it's quite more complex. Sorry for my english. I didn't know your distinction between in and outswinger... Have you work on the support for the fire. What do you heard in the name "furcatores" which is employed by vegetius with "manuballistatores". As my mind, its a group of two men one with the manuballista, and one with a kind of furca on which we can put the manuballista, like the musketers or the arquebuse of the Renaissance.

[D B Campbell]

What do you heard in the name "furcatores" which is employed by vegetius with "manuballistatores".

I don't recall anything about "furcatores" in Vegetius, Emmanuel.
Can you give us the reference?

[Emmanuel]

It's in the liber IV, i think.

[jbd_29349]

For the small Xanten bolt thrower (don't want to use manuballista or any other term so we don't get stuck on that), I see that you can wind the bolt cradle back by pushing it on the ground. So what locks that arm in place.

By looking at the picture that Aitor posted it has a metal loop on the end of the cradle arm with some kind of hook on the end of the machine. Is this how it is done?