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Cohors Civium Romanorum
#16
I can maybe swing it back a little: weren't diploma's pre-made copies of constitutiones? The specific name, unit and rank were later added in. Even if the soldier was already a citizen, he might still want the proof of Honesta missione.
Greets!

Jasper Oorthuys
Webmaster & Editor, Ancient Warfare magazine
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#17
Ive read somewhere that the soldier probably had to ask for a diploma (and pay for???)

therefore diplomas tended to be given out where the soldier would derive benefit from having it.

ie if he retired in the local area, then he probably wouldnt need a diploma since everyone would know his legal status

if however he moved to another part of the world, the diploma would be the evidence he may need of his status
Mark
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#18
Kate.
for your question earlier. If a U.S. unit receives a unit award, such as a Presidential or Meritorious Unit Citation, those awards are permanently awarded to those serving in the the Unit and the Unit bears the honor of such award permanently. New members of the unit temporarily wear the award as part of the unit heritage until transferred to another assignment.


I thought diplomas were given as a standard upon successful completion of service? I know I would want mine, especially if say I were a Gaul settling down in Syria after 25 years service, I would want proof of my Roman Citizenship in case something not so good were to happen.


On the CR Cohorts, If they were raised as a quick means to build troop formations ( like after Varus) as opposed to a Legion, would they have been equipped like a Legionary Cohort or was the intent to cut costs and equip like a auxiliary unit to save money.

In a way I can see this as a a very flexible means of raising troops and maintaining them on a frontier someplace as I think about it. Initially you recruit them as a body of Roman citizens, send them to some frontier to perform a security mission or to round out a Legion, and over time, because they are are a Auxiliary unit, you have the freedom to recruit locally to maintain your unit numbers.

But, back to like Caius says, there is a lot we just don't know, and may never know.

Thoughts?

Cheers,
Mike
Mike Daniels
a.k.a

Titus Minicius Parthicus

Legio VI FFC.


If not me...who?

If not now...when?
:wink: <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" />:wink:
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#19
Quote:I'm not sure there's evidence for c.R. units continuing to recruit citizens only.

I was hoping to prove that diplomas issued to men in c.R. units still assumed that some were not citizens. But it's a difficult case to make.
(Pity John Mann weren't still with us -- he'd know the answer!)

My original example, RMD (IV) 276, was issued to a member of a c.R. unit who would have been recruited ca. AD 132/3 (i.e., long after the unit was granted its c.R. status).
The question is: was he already a citizen on enlistment?

The diploma text explicitly grants citizenship "to those who do not have it" (Antoninus Pius ... equitibus ... civitatem Romanam qui eorum non haberent dedit). So the high command obviously thought that some men in ala I Britannica c.R. were still non-citizens.

ergo ... c.R. units did not restrict themselves to citizen recruits.

Quote:Weren't diploma's pre-made copies of constitutiones?
This is the major flaw in my theory!
The diploma carries a standardised text, designed to apply to every auxiliary unit. So it may be that all of the troopers in the ala were citizens who simply wanted a copy of the diploma to prove their honourable discharge.

Back to square one! :?
posted by Duncan B Campbell
https://ninth-legion.blogspot.com/
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#20
Follwing on from one of Jasper's earlier posts, we have the cohors voluntariorum civium romanorum, ingenuorum c R, Italica c R and campestris. Collectively these regiments constitute the cohortes civivm Romanorvm of volunteer citizens, to the soldiers of which, Augustus left by his will, a donative equal to that of the Legionaries. (Tacitus Annals i. 8 )

It appears that they represent the result of two levies made by Augustus in Italy, the first during the Pannonian uprising in 9AD and the second after the defeat of Publius Quinctillius Varus. The Cohortes I and II Italica could however have been raised at a later date by Tiberius to put down the Brigands in Sardinia (Tacitus Annals ii. 85)

When free-born citizens could not be found in sufficient numbers, the levy was extended to freedmen. This is corroborated by inscriptions, since the 'ingenuorum' clearly implies the existence of regiments whose members could not make the same boast!

As the will of Augustus shows, these cohorts occupied a peculiar position, and were practically on the same level as the Legionaries, and in consequence their commanders bear the title of Tribunus. Up until the Flavian period, this is how things stood, but a diploma from Dalmatia of 93AD shows that unenfranchised recruits had been accepted. In the second century, only their title distinguishes these regiments from the ordinary auxilia.
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#21
Quote:Up until the Flavian period, this is how things stood, but a diploma from Dalmatia of 93AD shows that unenfranchised recruits had been accepted.

I presume this is CIL XVI 38, Adrian (which is dated July AD 94 in RMD).

Although it was issued to a pedes of Cohors III Alpinorum, the diploma also covers men serving in VIII Voluntariorum c.R., which again raises the possibility that there were non-citizens in the ranks of a c.R. unit.
Interestingly, the diploma includes a clause that I have not seen on any other diploma:

[peditibus qui militant ...] in VIII Voluntariorum civium Romanorum qui peregrinae condicionis probati erant

I don't have access to CIL XVI, so I don't know if Nesselhauf commented on this peculiar clause. But I take it to mean that this particular constitutio (i.e., Dalmatia, July AD 94) applied to all time-served men in the Cohors Alpinorum, but only to those men in the VIII Voluntariorum who had been enrolled (probati) as freeborn non-citizens (peregrinae).

I am not a diploma expert, by any means. Perhaps some of our colleagues, particularly those familiar with the copious German literature, could shed some light on this?
posted by Duncan B Campbell
https://ninth-legion.blogspot.com/
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#22
Yes Duncan, that's the fellow, also referenced as

CIL 16, 00038 = CIL 03, p 0859 = CIL 12, 00074

Thanks for correcting me on the date of the diploma! 94, not 93AD. I was going from memory, which is slowly deteriorating as I age!

It's very unusual to have any such clauses or conditions on diplomata, but I agree with your thoughts regarding the VIII Voluntariorum who had been enrolled as freeborn non-citizens. It makes perfect sense.
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#23
While reading bits from Lendon's Empire of honour, I came across this footnote (n.166 on p.263) saying that in an auxiliary CR unit, only the members of the unit at granting(!) received citizenship. So Duncan's doubt was completely correct.
This point is apparently adressed in Maxfield, Decorations p.227-232 and Holder, Studies in the Auxilia, p.30-35. Since Paul is now a member, perhaps he will enlighten us more?
Greets!

Jasper Oorthuys
Webmaster & Editor, Ancient Warfare magazine
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#24
Well spotted Jasper! Big Grin

Thanks for the reference.
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#25
So, it looks as if after the initial enlistment then, that the recruits were not awarded citizenship until either as a reward for meritorious service or upon completion of their enlistment contract.

Now a off shoot question,...who had higher status in society?; a bunch of freedmen (with out citizenship) from Rome and the Italic peninsula in a cohort or a cohort recruited from provincials?

v/r
Mike
Mike Daniels
a.k.a

Titus Minicius Parthicus

Legio VI FFC.


If not me...who?

If not now...when?
:wink: <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" />:wink:
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#26
Arklore/Mike wrote:-
Quote:Kate.
for your question earlier. If a U.S. unit receives a unit award, such as a Presidential or Meritorious Unit Citation, those awards are permanently awarded to those serving in the the Unit and the Unit bears the honor of such award permanently. New members of the unit temporarily wear the award as part of the unit heritage until transferred to another assignment.
....and it's not just restricted to U.S. units. In Australian units that have received U.S. Presidential Unit Citations, the same custom is observed. The unit and the original members serving at the time of the award may wear the award permanently, but later arrivals wear the award only while they serve with that unit.
"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)

"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - George C Scott as General George S. Patton
Paul McDonnell-Staff
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#27
Cohorts of Italian freedmen are, if I'm not mistaken, pretty much nonexistant. There were freedmen and peregrines, to be sure, but Rome recruited on the borders unless it was for a new legion. And those recruits would be citizens of course.
Greets!

Jasper Oorthuys
Webmaster & Editor, Ancient Warfare magazine
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#28
Just to throw something into the mix, how about the unit title C.L., usually expanded to c(ivium) L(atinorum). It is attested in use by the unit cohors II Tungrorum in the second and third century: RIB 1981-3, 2092, 2104, 2110.

Wolff proposed that it may in fact stand for c(orum) l(audato), indicating an honorary title praising the unit involved.

Discussed in V.A. Maxfield (1981) The Military Decorations of the Roman Army pp. 232-3
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#29
Quote:Wolff proposed that it may in fact stand for c(orum) l(audato), indicating an honorary title praising the unit involved.
But Saddington rightly noted that coram laudata was a one-off acclamation, and would not have been recognised as a title or decoration.

Wolff's (only) example, the career of Valerius Maximianus, shows that he was praised by Marcus Aurelius on AE 1956, 124, but it would have been inappropriate to continue referring to this "praise" afterwards, and indeed it does not appear on subsequent inscriptions of Maximianus.

By contrast, the C.L. on the Tungrian inscriptions is clearly a permanent and formal title.
posted by Duncan B Campbell
https://ninth-legion.blogspot.com/
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