Late roman scabbard discs!

[Virilis]

Howdy rangers!

I am interested in discs / roundels at the end of the late roman sword scabbards. It is perhaps common knowledege that the most common form of the tips of the scabbard ends in the 4th century was a box-like shape, either a box or just a form like depicted in the famous "Tetrarchy statue" of venice.

I would like to know of any evidence of continuing use of disc / roundel-like shapes of scabbard ends of the 3th century further till the 4th century. The evidence of a 4th century disc / roundel shapes I have found are the famous Köln spatha (dated ca 300 AD) and a roman soldier tombstone from Aquileia (dated early 4th century). There is also a vaque resemblance of the shape in a treasure from Kaiseraugst...

Any other evidence (I have already studied the bog-finds of northern europe...)?!

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

These are a variety of chapes from South Shields Fort museum

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q315 ... CF0109.jpg


And this is actually a saxon set, not quite what you are referring to, but reminds me a little of an elaboration of the earlier Roman period(ie Late Roman, just very elaborate) Don't know if anyone would agree, but i can see a similarity.

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q315 ... CF0337.jpg

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q315 ... CF0336.jpg

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q315 ... CF0335.jpg

[brennivs - tony drake]

Virilis will get back to you on this one
Regards Brennivs

[Virilis]

Thanks Byron, I am familiar with these scabbard ends :wink: ! I am looking particularly evidence of continuing use of the disc-shape scabbard ends until the 4th century...

Btw, your avatar fills my whole computer screen, can anyone tell me the reason why !!??

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Hmmm, it looks smaller than yours on mine... :?

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Thanks Byron, I am familiar with these scabbard ends :wink: ! I am looking particularly evidence of continuing use of the disc-shape scabbard ends until the 4th century...

The one on the right in the first picture actually is a disc, just broken.

[Virilis]

Thanks Byron, I am familiar with these scabbard ends :wink: ! I am looking particularly evidence of continuing use of the disc-shape scabbard ends until the 4th century...

The one on the right in the first picture actually is a disc, just broken.

In fact the type is "Zugmantel", not a disk type :wink: ! Seriously, your avatar is so big that it fills my whole screen and pushes other things out of the screen :wink: ...

[Peroni]

The one on the right in the first picture actually is a disc, just broken.

The bone one? No, it's not a broken disc chape. This is the type that Virilis is asking about..

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Well not sure what the problem is, as it is smaller than yours on mine. :wink:
Whatever the 'term' is, it is a 'disc', made of bone. Except it has an extension at the top. :wink: But then that would warrent it a whole different terminology I suppose.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

I would have pulled a modern reconstruction off the web, but thought he might be interested in a real one. If it isn't a chape, you had better inform the museum at Arbea Peronis :wink: It certainly looks like a chape to me.

Anyway, sorry if that is not what you need Virilis. Just thought you might be interested.

[Virilis]

Thanks guys, this reconstruction by Patrick Bartà is the one I was looking for! I have the impression that these kind of chapes were still in use at least in the early 4th century...

[Virilis]

This is strange, Byron`s avatar is huge on my laptop screen but with my other computer it is okay hock: ! Can someone please help me with this problem?!

[Peroni]

Whatever the 'term' is, it is a 'disc', made of bone. Except it has an extension at the top. But then that would warrent it a whole different terminology I suppose.

Yes, it's definately a chape but not a disc type. it's basically a bone version of this.. A Pelta shape.


Disc chapes are these things..

[Celer]

Peroni,

Does Nodge make pelta chapes?

Vale,

Celer.

[Virilis]

This is a text from Christian Miks great book about roman swords (doctoral thesis):

Eine vergleichbare Einordnung ins späte 3. Jh. bis frühe 4. Jh. n.Chr. ist in anbebracht des erhaltenen Dekors auch für einen möglichen silbernen Ortbanddeckel aus dem Bereich des spätrömischen Kastells in Augsburg und das Fragment eines aus Bronze und Silber konstruierten potentiellen Dosenortbands im Nationalmuseum in Athen in Erwägung zu ziehen, bei denen unzureichende oder nicht vorhandene Fundort-bzw. Fundkontextangaben ansonsten keine chronologischen
Aussagen zulassen.

I interprete this that there is some evidence of round discs chapes continuing until at least early 4th century, of course in addition to the famous Köln spatha and the tombstone from Aquileia I mentioned earlier...